A Defender To Use On Ascension Island Help/advice Please

[trafman]

I am considering buying my 26 year old lad a Defender 90 to use as his everyday vehicle on Ascension Island and its generally hot there.

I have a budget of approx. £6k so its going to have age but am looking at those vehicles which have had a few bob spent on them ideally clutch ,cam belts and look tidy and a little less than military. I personally have never owned a Defender or any 4x4 but driven many inc old ones in my RAF days more recently Police ones in snow and floods but am really undecided if a Defender is the right vehicle of choice considering the below info .

As my lad will be working on Ascension for 2 to 4 yrs he needs something which can cope with a tough environment but little if any real off road use. 95% of the time it just for pleasure and driven on volcanic cinder tracks. When my lad finishes on Ascension the vehicle is very likely to stay there and be sold as it has a bit of a premium as no cost of shipping export etc, its likely to be worth more there than back in the UK and certainly after another 2-4yrs service. Ascension is only about 7 miles across modest hills in places but it is hot most of the year so have to think about an engine and a vehicles ability to keep itself cool. I would guess his mileage will be around 50 miles a week no more than 100. Diesel is cheaper than UK and the vehicle he imports has to be a diesel as soon that will be the only road vehicle fuel available.

Thankfully the cost to get the vehicle out there is covered in his contract but I don't want to be sending a liability and my lad whilst very bright would not know how to change such as an injector or alternator and certainly no idea on diagnosis etc. There is a repair garage there but so many different makes of vehicle on the island that spares are the real issue and you could easily have a 6 week wait for spares from the UK via ship.

A Landrover may just have the edge on the other makes as the government use a few Defenders and a few spares are kept available but very very limited and obviously plenty of variations on engines and spares across the Defender fleet.

So being a newbie to Defenders a few questions that I would really appreciate help with from those that know these vehicles. Considerations really have to keep in focus that this is not really a vehicle for fun although I have loved driving them and having fun and its not a case if it breaks that he can fix it or has access to much in the way of spares.

Is a Defender the right vehicle ? does not need it to be 110 but wants a hard top vehicle and 90 size is fine.

What model would best suit, thinking reliability ease of getting spares in UK to send out if required, actually we are talking Landrover when required.

what engine, I am thinking 200 does that keep its self cooler than 300 ? or is there a solution to improve either of these engines, any particular fan set up to use or avoid ?

What modifications would you suggest are essential or desirable

What wheels and tyres, need to be hard wearing the volcanic cinder tracks and surface eat shoes as its effectively pumice volcanic cinder so sure tyres will get eaten up if the wrong compound. appreciate driving style will dictate that one more but obviously tyres wont be cheap to get to Ascension and over 4 yrs don't want to be changing too often, mind 50-100 miles a week am I over considering that one ?

Any other considerations you would be making ?

Even at 26 Insurance is not an issue for him everyone seems to pay a fee to the Island government or something like that. No rush to provide the vehicle its getting the right one that matters. I have to think long and hard about the vehicle, he does want a little 4x4 ability but its a tough call buying a vehicle when 90% of the time its not going to be used to its potential or even basic 4x4 capability.

I am lucky to be going out there next month for 2 weeks so may be able to do some homework and see what vehicles seem to work and stand up to the environment, I will look to see what engines and set up are in any Landys out there, sadly I asked my lad to seek advice of the garage there but local mechanic was not overly forthcoming with advice.

I am hiring a Ford Fiesta when I am out there £25 a day and will be putting it through its paces and seeing what a basic 2wd can deal with. I will be enjoying some fishing there as even off the beach 16ft sharks or 50-100lb tuna are possible, I will also be diving. I have to behave though as my lad is setting up the Fisheries research and is in charge of diving. I keep reminding him I beat him to Ascension as spent a day there transiting to the Falklands in 1982 and spent half my 21st birthday on the island on the way back. Buggers made me do it again in 1990 so I left afterwards lol

Thanks in advance

Trafman alias Martin

[ejparrott]

I use my Series 3 88" every day, we don't own another type of car, its Series 3's or bikes, and we'd never change that, but that's us. Its a choice we make, knowing that I have to do the work, we get a fuel consumption we're happy with, and I know she can get us out of the mire if we should find ourselves in it.

I've no experience of the 300TDi, but the 200 does keep itself very cool.

Buying a defender you'll get disc brakes, so you won't have half the trouble I keep having, likewise 5-speed gearbox.

[FridgeFreezer]

Are you expecting an unbiased opinion from the Defender forum?

[trafman]

Well in the spirit that I wrote my request for help I hope to get a reasoned response but am sure if I went on " Turkeys forum" and asked them if they want to vote to keep Christmas, their response would also be a bit predicatable.

On serious note really will appreciate the advice and sure members will be keen to assist knowing that we are looking to source a Defender to work in an environment that will test it.

I am sure if my Lad Daniel gets his hands on his own landy then he will use it and get it off the tracks that 2wd vehicles can use.

trafman

[discomikey]

I drive a series 3 with a 200TDi in it also,

what i would reccommend for him is a 200TDi engined 90 or 110:

• never once overheated a 200 even with heavy towing and no fan at all
• a factory fit TDi would be ideal, if its a hot country make sure it has the origional type viscous fan fitted and a full cowling to aid cooling anyway
• this engine is extremely reliable, it only needs one 12v feed to keep it running and even if you loose the alternator you can remove the solenoid and bump it off, you will have to stall it but what you have is an engine that CAN, although not ideal, be run completely independent of the electrical system in case of faliure
• parts for the engine arent that expensive over here, although mine was rebuilt at 200,000 miles and only showed extremely minimal signs of wear, they regularly last for well over 250,000 reliably and i know of one which achieved 650,000 miles and was still going strong on no major engine replacement parts.
• the engine is torquey from the get go and easy to maintain and keep running
• if you cant find diesel it will run on pretty much any type of heavy oil, veg oil definately works and hydraulic oil is said to run fine too if a little smokey.

Just make sure like you say it has had a cam belt, ideally a clutch and rear crank oil seal, although these are simple so servicing cost at least labour wise should be relatively cheap depending on vehicle condition

as far as the rest of it goes, make sure the gearbox doesent crunch going into second, and that there is no excessive backlash in the transmission, wheel bearings are probably the most frequently relpaced part In my experience, especially if travelling over rough terrain all the time, so take a few spare sets. I would check condition of all the axle and suspension mounting brackets to ensure there arent any signs of cracking and fatigue, (purely because of the rough tracks it will be travelling over)

there is only 2/3 grades of oil used in the whole vehicle so that makes it simpler.

look out for rusty crossmembers, chassis in general and bulkheads, especially in the top corners and footwells,

apart from that just the usual "second hand car checks" should have you a pretty nice, and tidy example.

i would then reccommend doing a few thousand miles in it over here where parts are available and cheap. (DONT use Britpart parts though although they seem cheap they wont be when they fail early on a remote island) wheelbearings use Timken only, and take complete wheelbearing kits as spare, and for other things, try and get hold of only OEM/Genuine parts.

before and after you have run it for those few thousand miles, i would have it fully checked over by a reputable garage for any faults, worn parts, anything that could cause a problem. Im not saying go spend a bomb on it and rebuild it completely, but if you can buy a decent 200TDi defender hopefully you will have some change to budget for a couple of checkups and any possible spare parts needed.

as for the engine side of it though you will get a hundred different answers, my suggestion was purely based on my experiences and how happy i have been with my 200TDi engines

[trafman]

Discomikey

Wow wow and thank you, a real load of time and effort put into that reply and a lot of info and considerations. Its always great that if you ask folk with a common interest for a little help, then its given in bucket loads to a complete stranger. many thanks.

As always all considerations etc keep them coming, thought the idea of using it here for a few K very sensible and thanks for the tip re OEM/genuine parts

trafman

[tacr2man]

200tdi 90 a good choice , and also the previous post got most of it . If an early 90 , then might have the oil bath hubs , on these wheel bearings last just about for ever . FMHE . (My 110 still on original bearings ) . Tyres stay with 750 r16 or 235/85 16 . I would recommend BF Goodrich AT or MT . Handle similar damaging terrain in Australia FMHE . Send it with basic spares when shipping eg hoses belts, an alt , and a starter motor . The alt and s/mtr dont need to be new , as will cover ok in emergency. Brake pads , and clutch kit. Uni joint, Anything else should be obtainable locally , eg bulbs , oil; filters etc. Fit a New Hi capacity battery . Pay particular attention to condition of rad . Replace all oils with full synthetic , then only engine oil whill need a change for its projected period .

As for hardtop or softop version your choice ! Both have + and - point s. HTSH

[V8CAMEL]

Also put a spare parts pack in the back for him

[trafman]

I will have to look up what oil bath hubs are but guess it means good constant lubrication. dependant on what initial purchase cost is, then will look at possibility of changing such as alt, starter and radiator and then send the replaced items as spares, that way there is no doubt they are the right ones and working. may be a little wasteful but better chance of trouble free time in Ascension which is main aim.

trafman

[Ed Poore]

Speaking from experience of owning a 300Tdi (and actually selling it at the moment but might be a little bit beyond your budget - at least I'd hope so ) that's had no issues of over-heating apart from the time when I had a leak from the P-gasket surrounding the water pump. Aside from that it's always been rock-solid about 1/3 of the way up the temperature gauge. Not that I'd imagine it being much of a deciding factor but my parent's neighbour has a 200Tdi 90 and the engine sounds much louder and; not rougher but perhaps more agricultural than the 300Tdi in my Defender and the Disco we had.

Having owned an 88, 90 and 110 I can resoundingly say that unless I could buy all three I would always go for the 110. The Series 3 is immense fun off-road bouncing absolutely everywhere and not really giving a **** about what was being driven into. The 90 was capable but always felt twitchy and bouncy on the road - particularly after buying the 110. The killer with both was the "lack" of space - yes they have a large boot but they're not really more than a 2 seater if you have luggage. Hence the reason for the 110 - that could at least transport 5 people and kit in relative comfort, I say relative because I've just bought a 3.6 TDV8 FFRR and it can't quite carry the same amount of stuff but the passengers are in far more comfort!

I've taken all four of those Land Rovers off-road and have to say that aside from tyres the FFRR is probably the most capable (haven't really pushed it yet but have been seriously impressed with what I have done) and then I'd have to say the 110. I've rarely been in a situation that I needed / wanted a slightly shorter wheel-base, most of the time I find that it helped since the other end of the vehicle tended to be on a good surface. In terms of the remaining two the 90 was probably technically more capable but definitely had more fun in the Series - particularly given you can put it in 2WD and get the back out properly.

In terms of tyres after experiences within the family the 90 and 110 ran BFG ATs and got at least 65k out of them when I swapped them. Still had masses of tread left but I think they were just getting tired and had to be running at quite a high pressure (about 40 psi if I remember correctly) to not look too flat. A set of BFG Muds came up on this forum cheap and I got them - the transformation off-road was astonishing and on-road (once the 1.2 transfer box was fitted) they were a little noisier than the ATs but not massively so. I've managed to go spend circa £1k on tyres for the RR this month after destroying two of them on the Lakes trip (one with a spectacular pop) and try as I might have not even put a scratch into the BFG tyres and I've not been gentle on them. Not driven on volcanic stuff with them but in my opinion are by a long way the best tyre you can fit to a Defender (these have been running 265/75R16s but I don't think the size is too much of an issue).

Playing devils advocate slightly have you considered a Disco? They're a damn sight cheaper than the Defenders in general and if spending most of the time on-road would be more comfortable, you can get them with the same engines and (I might be wrong) but more likely to come with air-con which might be a consideration. The vehicle I'm sure will cope with the temperature but having experienced a Defender that's been in the sun for a long time air-con would be appreciated to cool it down!

[FridgeFreezer]

In the interests of balance, and at the risk of getting myself lynched:

- 200 & 300 defenders are quite old now, mostly knackered, rusty, and vastly overpriced because Land Rover owners are luddites who are terrified of technology so they cling to the basic diesels. Neither are bad engines, but you'll pay over the odds for a Defender with one in it compared to a newer cleaner TD5.

- 90's are quite impractical, there is waaay more space in a 110 and very little difference in capability

- Discovery & Range Rover are as capable as Defender but cheaper and way more comfy

- Unless you absolutely must tow 3.5 tonnes or absolutely must wade through deep mud, buy a Freelander for half your budget, it'll be better than a Defender at the top of your budget.

- Everyone knows it's only been downhill since the Series 3

- If it's got a green oval on it it WILL require maintenance, if you want reliable buy japanese. Otherwise, V8Camel is right - send a spares package out in the boot.

Right, I'm off to join the witness protection program

[trafman]

Hi Fridge

Well thanks for the balanced view as well and hope the witness protection looks after you. No one allowed to have a pop at Fridge he is providing what I am asking for and that's as many and as broad and cross section of ideas and suggestions. Certainly the views and suggestions received so far reflect very well on this group in general and its a credit that folk can feel able to be honest and realistic in their assessment of what the pros and cons are of the Landy fleet.

I have driven Police Discos in some interesting snows and never been over worried and never let me down. The only time I got a Police Defender stuck (for a while) was in a heavy snow drift , I was literally flying down the road bouncing on top of the rut of snow between the tyre tracks on a rural B road. It was one of those times when you really needed a plough but just had to keep the momentum going and press on and enjoy the ride. We then came head to head at 2am with a muppet who had taken his 2wd Astra out and was well and truly stuck. I remember saying to my passenger colleague, he must be ********* to be out in this . He was and loaned us his licence for 12 months, have to say it was amazing just how far he had managed to get in a 2wd vehicle.

Really appreciate these considerations and more than happy for them to keep coming.

Regards

Trafman

[discomikey]

- Everyone knows it's only been downhill since the Series 3

Love that! in my signature it goes lol

Edit: no it doesent, i cant get it to play ball!

[Lewis]

Buy a Hilux?

Chances are it won't go wrong, the salinity is bound to have an effect on the steel bodywork though.

Where is Ascension Island?

[oneandtwo]

It has got to be a 300tdi. 200tdi parts are getting harder to get now, everything is available for 300tdi. Any defenders over there are most likely to be 300tdi powered ROW vehicles anyway so more chance of obtaining spares.

I have got rid of all my 200tdi vehicles and engines and am sticking to 300tdis (I run four 300tdi defenders for various tasks) and have experience in operating them in isolated areas.

[trafman]

Lewis

Ascension island is a small volcanic Island about 7miles across and right in the equatorial waters of the South Atlantic about 1,000 miles of the coast of Africa and about 1400 miles off South America or in other words a bl***y long way to the shops if your Defender breaks down.

[trafman]

Getting a few negatives re the spares situ for the 200tdi ? so how does the 300Tdi cope as far as cooling is concerned or is there a mod that you would do to a 300 used in a hotter climate. Ascension average daily temp is about 80F and note today is 86F. Or in old money well warm.

Trafman

[Diablo]

I've had a 200 for nearly 8 years and never had a problem with any parts whatsoever.

[discomikey]

turner engineering still supply all the parts i have ever needed, was only last year (maybe the one before?) that i did a full rebuild on my engine, they were able to supply OEM everything, no issues

in fact, looking at their website you could actually build a full 200 engine from scratch!

[steve b]

Another vote for 110 , a much better ride and while the back of a 90 HT looks big , it really isn't , and a 110 to all

intents is just as useable off road as a 90 and more stable in many situations. As for the 200 vs 300 discussion there is

not really anything to choose . Parts for both are still available generally , it's more about selecting a good example of whichever

flavour you are looking at .

J and K plate defenders do seem more rust prone than earlier or later examples , but that's just my observations

And I'd definitely give it a good shakedown here before shipping , but sensible buying and good standard of servicing and inspection by a

specialist would set it up for hassle free island life

cheers

Steveb

[Retroanaconda]

Unless you specifically want a Defender, buy what the locals use. That's probably the best indication of what works best out there.

[dailysleaze]

Unless you specifically want a Defender, buy what the locals use. That's probably the best indication of what works best out there.

Seconded. Or use what the British military use. The main challenge would be access to spares in such remote location, but the military have direct flights from the UK so must be bringing their spares frequently enough. Give them a crate of beers now and then and you're sorted. I expect they'd use 300tdis

[trafman]

Is there any real probs or issues with the 300tdi engine and it not being very efficient as far as cooling is concerned ? So how does the TD5 fair as a potential in that environment ?

There is such a wide range of vehicles used, that was one of my first line of enquiry as thought go for what is most used and there should be some spares available. Sadly there is no joined up thinking on that one and its just a real jumble of different makes inc a lot of 2wd vehicles which just have to stick to the relatively level tracks and no going off road etc.

Cant go into it on here but there is no real access to military spares any spares come via ship from UK think 6 weeks from ordering and you would not be far out.

[Ibex94]

Hi Martin,

Interesting placement at 26, I hope he's mechanically minded if you're sending him away with a Defender - still will keep him busy if there's not to many girls to chase.

200 and 300 are very similar, 300 incorporating a few refinements to try and make it quieter and improve emissions I think. Same capacity, same quoted output, and running a very similar cooling system with DNA coming through from the 19J TD. As per previous comment we would appear to be a little conservative over selection of technology in the Defender forum so you get lots of us going on about how simple the 200 is and how the TD5 is the devil incarnate with all its electric voodoo.

Whilst the engine is an important feature of the truck there are plenty of other bonus bits Land Rover threw in to keep our wallets empty and day fulfilled

If cooling is your primary concern then the condition of the radiator is significant and when in all likelihood the 200Tdi truck is as old as your lad there is good potential for the rad core to be in a pretty poor condition either internally full of cooling circuit debris or externally full of mixed carp with half the cooling fins missing. However its not a difficult job to replace either with std or to find one with increased cooling capacity. However I think Land Rover probably have got it about right with the std radiator. Std viscous fans seem to keep running well and probably don't warrant needing to fit electric unit instead. Do make sure as previous post that the dig plastic cowl is present and in good condition as this makes sure that the engine fan draws air over all the radiator surface.

Most Land Rover engines from 200Tdi seem to be capable of high mileages if oil changed regularly. I rebuilt mine when it was originally transplanted as previous owner had been careless enough to roll the vehicle leading to one of the rods being bent. But you really could see much real wear to bearings or cylinder boars - from memory had done ~70k miles. I think your selection comes back to how simple do you want to make repairing / diagnosing faults with the engine.

What you will find plenty of on the forum however is discussion on the gearboxes in particular how they can fail. Most likely location for a problem is the spline coupling between the main gearbox output shaft and the transfer box input gear. Lubrication can be poor in this area and the two sections of spline fret against each other, steadily wearing away leading them letting go quite suddenly. When you get to drive a truck 90 or 110 get a feel for how much backlash there is in the transmission, how carefully do you need to feed in the clutch to avoid a thump when you get the full attention of all the oily bits between the engine and the wheels. There are plenty of other interfaces which wear:

• Gearbox to transfer box - remove rear cover from transfer box and have a look at the end of the shaft and gear mentioned above, get son to rock the truck forward and back with engine off and in gear and you get the picture.
• similarly propshaft uj's wear and let go - you will need to become familiar with a grease gun - and unfortunately the grease nipples are out of sight and therefore often out of mind under the truck and can be neglected. When under the truck have a look to see how much grease is around the UJ's and sprayed over the floor the more the better - There are plenty of trucks out there with after market cheap UJ's fitted which aren't up to the job (journals are larger less pins are fitted load per pin much higher).
• The final easy place to check are the front axle drive flanges in particular under the plastic cover on the end of the axle, here you can see what condition the drive shaft splines are in. The drive flange is the component that connects the drive shaft to the hub and will ear out over time - the good bit is its normally the flange which wears and not the shaft and they're relatively cheap and easy to replace.
• Finally on the front axle if it swivel hubs are fitted with grease then it may be worth removing the fill plug and having a look at the oil. The seals do fail between axle and swivel and when they do the diff oil will be a dirty graphite grey colour. Won't stop you or fail tomorrow but does indicate the axle will need some refurbishment.
• Also check out the threads on back lash loads of good guidance and scare stories.

200 Tdi's were fitted with LT77 gearbox as standard 300's the R380. (On the R380 reverse is below 5th.) I think the R380 is better but both will wear and Ashcroft transmission do a sterling trade refurbishing them as they do with the transfer boxes also.

At the end of the day find the truck in the best overall condition for you budget whether its 200, 300 or TD5. Don't spend all you budget on the truck as you will have to pay some tax to Solihull before you're happy the vehicle is it good enough condition to send down to the middle of the Atlantic. Buy him a set of spares (tax) / consumables and tell him to replace what he uses. Also buy a good set of tools to send out also. (All jokes aside about Halfrauds, there tools aren't bad, you get a lifetime guarantee and you can get a really good deal if you can find someone with a trade card - they're about 60% of the list price.) You'll need to go up to 30mm to cover most the vehicle - can only think of a couple of places which you couldn't work on mainly rear hub bearing which I think are either 50 or 55mm.

Also bear in mind other options are available, L200's, Shoguns, Troopers and Land Cruisers. All are used around the world and the luddites may suggest they're preferable to what Solihull have produced.

Good luck

Rob

[dailysleaze]

Is there any real probs or issues with the 300tdi engine and it not being very efficient as far as cooling is concerned ? So how does the TD5 fair as a potential in that environment ?

There is such a wide range of vehicles used, that was one of my first line of enquiry as thought go for what is most used and there should be some spares available. Sadly there is no joined up thinking on that one and its just a real jumble of different makes inc a lot of 2wd vehicles which just have to stick to the relatively level tracks and no going off road etc.

Cant go into it on here but there is no real access to military spares any spares come via ship from UK think 6 weeks from ordering and you would not be far out.

The 300Tdi can have overheating issues in hot climates, but mostly due to leaks in the radiator or heater matrix. The latter can be can be bypassed to mitigate this. The consequence can be high because there is a small margin for coolant loss, as the water pump is quite high on the engine, so will be running dry after a few litres lost. If the cooling system is in good condition then the engine can easily cope with the heat.

A Td5 would also cope fine in the environment. If you want it to be fixed by local mechanics, then if they only work on non-electronic engines then the Td5 may be complicated, but that's not to say they can't learn.

Googling about Land Rovers on Ascension, there seem to be a few out there, some slightly older 300Tdis. It sounds like you'll potentially have the same spares issue no matter which vehicle you go for.