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Hazard Switch & Indicators - fault diagnosis


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Hi,

OK, bit of a problem....

I'm changing the 1989 Defender Hazard Warning Switch for a Freelander one of 2003 vintage. It's for mounting in a custom-made dash.

Now, I've sussed out all of the wires from Defender to Freelander, based on Circuit Diagrams from t'internet.

Problem is with the Freelander C0096 Hazard Switch Connector, pins 4 & 5 (red/orange and black respectively) are not mentioned on any drawing I can see.

Is this a supply and return (earth) for the switch itself? If not, do I just ignore them on the Defender?

Hope you can help with this

Thanks in advance.

LRmud

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I have a different situation and I hope someone can help .

I replaced a faulty hazard switch . Everything works again but now I can't turn the ignition off . I can take the key right out and the truck stays running . Untill I disconnect the new switch

.

is the connector block the correct way up ? or have you cured this problem ??

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Western,

The drawings you posted are same as the ones I am using, except I have the 2003MY version - so that's a relief.

On the C0096 Connector page you posted, it mentions Pins 4 & 5 being RO and B respectively.

The Switch I got off fleabay came with a connector which has all 9 wires hanging out of the back of it, just as per the drawing.

Like you say, I should probably (safely) assume the black will be an earth and ignore the red/orange (C0096 - Pin 4) unless it doesn't work otherwise.

Maybe just an anomaly between connector drawing and circuit diagram....?

Thanks for your help.

LRmud

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Hi,

OK, bit of a problem....

I'm changing the 1989 Defender Hazard Warning Switch for a Freelander one of 2003 vintage. It's for mounting in a custom-made dash.

Now, I've sussed out all of the wires from Defender to Freelander, based on Circuit Diagrams from t'internet.

Problem is with the Freelander C0096 Hazard Switch Connector, pins 4 & 5 (red/orange and black respectively) are not mentioned on any drawing I can see.

Is this a supply and return (earth) for the switch itself? If not, do I just ignore them on the Defender?

Hope you can help with this

Thanks in advance.

LRmud

Is red/orange not the illumination feed? Check the diagram in RAVE for the gauges/dash illumination and see if your missing pins are referenced in there.

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Red/Orange on pin 4 is for the switch's night-time illumination.

Black on pin 5 is the switch's earth.

In Land Rover's wiring diagrams, switch illumination and earth aren't shown on the page for the switch's function.

They're shown on a separate page - "Interior Illumination" - which shows the illumination lives and earths for all of the switches, dash, clocks, controls, etc...

.

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OK, I guess since I mentioned a "custom-made dash" in a previous post... here it is.... - go easy on me, I'm a newbie!!!! :)

Hazard Switch is at the top.

The centre section of the dash is easily removable by undoing a couple of securing nuts underneath.

Before anyone mentions it, I have no intention of opening the vent flaps at the front - ever. That's one bad design unless you live in Africa or something!

cheers

LRmud

post-102509-0-93212300-1417806754_thumb.jpg

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  • 3 months later...

Hi All

I stumbled onto this as the best answers on all of the web. So I propmtly joined. I'm from Cape town South Africa.

Landy: 2003 Td5

Problem: indicators stopped working with only a buzzing coming from the flasher relay. So as per the thread info,

I did the following tests.

(Ignition off)

  • Bridge purple to green-red and green-white = all good, indicator lights comes on
  • Bridge purple to lightgreen and using the indicator stalk = indicators are flashing L and R respectively

That means wiring to indicator lights is fine; Flasher relay is fine. Could be faulty Hazard switch..

Next test.

(Ignition on)

  • Bridge darkgreen (white green on td5) with lightgreen and using indicator stalk = buzzing L and R

That means the light switch supply has an issue. And implies that the hazard switch is fine.

Next test

(Ignition on)

  • Multi tester voltage from earth (- on sigarette lighter) to darkgreen (white green on td5) reads 11.something V..
  • Multi tester voltage from earth to purple reads 12.something V

Conclusion: The light switch supply (darkgreen (white green on td5)) has a voltage drop or bad connection. I'm sure 11V is enough to power the flasher relay and I can't see how that line could have a voltage drop. So, a bad connection is my guess.

As per C18RCH's diagram this line runs straight to use box. Which I will check now.

  1. To the contributors (especially LandyManLuke) thanks for a helpful thread
  2. Thought my thought process could ad to the knowledge pool of likely problems and solutions for others
  3. And if my thought process is wrong, help would be appreciated
  4. And if my thought process is right, help would still be appreciated
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Hi All

I stumbled onto this as the best answers on all of the web. So I propmtly joined. I'm from Cape town South Africa.

Landy: 2003 Td5

Problem: indicators stopped working with only a buzzing coming from the flasher relay. So as per the thread info,

I did the following tests.

(Ignition off)

  • Bridge purple to green-red and green-white = all good, indicator lights comes on
  • Bridge purple to lightgreen and using the indicator stalk = indicators are flashing L and R respectively

That means wiring to indicator lights is fine; Flasher relay is fine. Could be faulty Hazard switch..

Next test.

(Ignition on)

  • Bridge darkgreen (white green on td5) with lightgreen and using indicator stalk = buzzing L and R

That means the light switch supply has an issue. And implies that the hazard switch is fine.

Next test

(Ignition on)

  • Multi tester voltage from earth (- on sigarette lighter) to darkgreen (white green on td5) reads 11.something V..
  • Multi tester voltage from earth to purple reads 12.something V

Conclusion: The light switch supply (darkgreen (white green on td5)) has a voltage drop or bad connection. I'm sure 11V is enough to power the flasher relay and I can't see how that line could have a voltage drop. So, a bad connection is my guess.

As per C18RCH's diagram this line runs straight to use box. Which I will check now.

  1. To the contributors (especially LandyManLuke) thanks for a helpful thread
  2. Thought my thought process could ad to the knowledge pool of likely problems and solutions for others
  3. And if my thought process is wrong, help would be appreciated
  4. And if my thought process is right, help would still be appreciated

Report:

I found the problem 10min later.

I tested all the fused much earlier, but without removing them. (mistake)

I traced the line form the fuse box to the hazard switch, running my thumb nail over the wire to feel for a kink or break in the conductor. Nothing. Then I found that the wire going into the back of the fuse box caused the relay to respond if wiggled; buzzing, stopping and then working fine.

It turned out that the previous owner, about 10 years ago, wound a single strand of copper wire around the fuse legs to mend a broken fuse. After all these years it had been working fine, untill now. It seems like there is just enough oxidation or gap to cause a bad connection that manifested as the voltage drop. Put in a new fuse: fixed.

Re mount the fuse box, put all the wiring back in place, and taped up. Re assemble the whole dash and console.. What a big opperation for a small problem.

Lesson: Check the fuses properly by removing them one at a time..

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  • 1 month later...

On the subject of Hazards/Indicators/Flasher unit I am having similar problems to C18RCH earlier in this thread.....

I have a '94 200tdi 90 Defender and recently was blowing fuse No5 whenever I started indicating to go left..... this was soon traced to water ingress into my towing socket which was duly addressed by fitment of new towing socket, some heat shrink tubing & a liberal covering of self-amalgamating tape !

However, during the process of fault-finding I must have damaged the Flasher Relay as this was no longer "clicking" when I indicated - so that was changed out for a replacement 4-pin Lucas unit.

All was "tickety-boo" for a while & then the new Flasher Relay started clicking intermittently whenever I switched on the sidelights/headlights or operated the foot brake, & clicked continuously when operating the windscreen wipers/washer or the heater blower motor ! However, the indicators are not coming on when the relay operates - I've tested the Hazard Warning switch & that seems to operate ok. I've visually checked the connections in the replacement towing socket & that's ok. Initially i thought that there may be some "high-resistance" fault to earth somewhere so I've stripped out the whole lower fascia panel to expose the main wiring loom to the fuse box but initially can see nothing obvious. I'm also at a loss as to how to test the Flasher Relay as I'm not sure how it's supposed to work !

Any thoughts/ideas as to where to look/what to try ?

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There is a simple diagram that I drew back on page 2 of this thread.

Power come from the fuse box to the hazard switch out to the flasher relay then back to the hazard switch for the hazards or the column switches for the indicators.

If the lights aren't flashing then it is possible that there is a sticky contact within the hazard switch providing power to the flasher relay or you have a short somewhere on the LG wire.

Strange though that it is working with the windscreen wipers/washer or the heater blower motor. I could understand the rest and would lay the blame firmly at the feet of the trailer socket.

They do all have a common power supply which is the Green (G) ignition live, so I would start there.

The other thing I would check is the loom itself. If you can get to it the I would separate it to see if you have a an exposed or melted wire somewhere. That's what was causing my issues initially. I repaired the damages sections but could never actually get to the bottom of the problem, it was also the final nail in the coffin for doing a full rebuild on it. When I rebuilt it I replaced the loom with a new one. Problem solved. :ph34r:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello All,

Hope you are well!

I am not sure my first post whent on so I try again...

I am new to this forum and thank's a lot for all this thread,

I have read and did the test.

When I Bridge purple to green-red and green-white = all good, indicator lights comes on

  • When I Bridge purple to lightgreen and using the indicator stalk = nothing happen.

The hazard switch are not working and the flasher neither.

It started by working on and off and now not working at all.

Do you think it's the flasher relay?

Thak's a lot,

Matthieu

From the East coast of Canada

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If the flasher is flashing correctly when it is working then it is not the flasher relay.

I'm not sure exactly what you are shorting to get it to work, but what you have described doesn't sound right at all:

When I Bridge purple to green-red and green-white = all good, indicator lights comes on

purple to green-red and green-white - all this is proving is the lights work

  • When I Bridge purple to lightgreen and using the indicator stalk = nothing happen.
  • This wouldn't do anything either on it's own. You would still need the indicators switched on either by the Hazard switch or the indicator stalk.

The hazard switch are not working and the flasher neither.

Sounds like the hazard switch is faulty to me

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Thank's for your help :)

Ok, so I will try to be clearer.

The flasher and the hazard are not working. I understand that bridging purple to green-red and green-white only prove that the light are working.

When I bridge purple to light/green, even if I put the indicators switched on either by the Hazard switch or the indicator stalk, nothing happen.

Also, at first, when they have start causing problem, sometime they where working and sometime not. Then, when I was flashing, the hazard was coming on at the same time. Then everything just stop working.

Before that happen, I have change the bulb from Led to normal bulb... Could that change something?

How can I know if it's the hazard switch that is faulty?

Thank's again, I appreciate your help.

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If it is not working at all I would change the flasher relay anyway. They are not expensive and easy to swap. If that doesn't fix it then it is almost certainly the hazard switch.

Changing from LED to filament bulb will almost certainly affect things. If it was an LED bulb designed to be a straight swap you should be ok but if the system was designed to take LED bulbs then it will never work with filament bulbs. They draw far more power.

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  • 1 month later...

LandyManLuke's first post was a real life-saver (OK, so nobody was likely to actually DIE, but I might have been terribly inconvenienced).

I've been having trouble with the indicators on my 110 for a couple of weeks and I suspected the hazard switch because (a) the indicator stalk is relatively new and (b) they worked better if I held in the front of the hazard switch.

So this evening, I decided that I'd better have a look at the switch and set about it with some contact cleaner. But when I pulled the switch plate off, the hazard switch disintegrated before my very eyes. The body of the switch, where the two halves latch together, has broken, so it's for the bin.

But of course, no hazard switch means no indicators. With the aid of the description and diagrams in Luke's post and the judicious use of my 100W soldering iron, I have working indicators again. No hazards, of course, until I get a new switch but the MOT's not for another 11 months yet ;-)

In case it helps anyone else out needing an emergency fix, I cut away the corner of the switch at the light switch supply wire (just the plastic shroud, leaving the terminal in place) so that I could get in with my soldering iron. I bent the switch contact from the permanent supply terminal out of the way. Cleaned up the light switch supply terminal and the switch contact from the Supply to Flasher pin (it's obvious when you look at it in conjunction with Luke's pinout). A bit of flux and the application of a hefty iron and I simply soldered the Supply to Flasher terminal to the Light Switch Supply terminal. I plugged this back into the loom, discarding the rest of the broken switch and, voila! Working indicators again.

And not a Bodgelok in sight.

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  • 7 months later...

Excellent thread, thanks all. You'd never believe that there could be three brand new faulty switches, but using the diagnostics (short out the purple and light green) and indicators magically return.

4th switch next week.

Cheers

David

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  • 5 months later...

I have a 2006 Defender LWB. It's been looked after, low mileage. The indicators have been working intermittently recently. On a drive, sometimes they work, sometimes not. I can't rely on them. When they work, they work ! What's going on , please ?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys

the permanent live - 'purple wire' seems to have no power on my defender.

after tracing from the hazard light switch it seems to be cut off in the radio compartment , if I connect 12v to the line I have hazards.

I would prefer to have the original connection linked back to the fuse box.

could any of you please tell me which fuse number it connects to and the purple wire joins to what color wire at the fuse.

I have checked the fuse box and cannot pickup the purple with brown strip wire.

much appreciated

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Ok so on mine I'm getting 12v from the purple no probs but when doing the test as per original post I get nothing lighting up. Iv had new hazard switch, stalk and relay. Today iv tried for power at the connector block for the relay but get nothing. All fuses are ok. I'm at the end of my wits end with now.

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