jimmy_neutron Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I'm kitting my defender out .. Its a 1991 90 hard top Ive fitted windows in the back. I've reconned the gearbox and transfer box. Reconned the fuel injector pump and replaced the injectors. I'm currently replacing all front seats, including fitting a centre seat thats got a head rest for additional safety and built in a 3 point proper seat belt, the same as the drivers seat. I'm also fitting forward facing rear seats from a 07 defender. When i finish this, hopefully next week, thought i'd be all happy with my family friendly truck. Problem is, that the kids have got quite into the landie and want to start going off roading. This of course is really good as i can tell the Mrs that i'm out playing with the kids instead of the usual getting moaned at for fiddling with the landie. Anyway, it got me thinking that if the kids are coming, then i'd better fit a roll cage. Anyone got any experience with these ? Are they easy to fit ? Where's best to go ? Would prefer an external cage, and want safety in an accident rather than a 'looks pretty', however 'looks pretty' would be nice too How much are they. Any advice please cos i've absolutely no experience when it comes to this kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Try North 4x4 (think they are in Scarbrough). They specialise in proper roll cages and other iron mongery. I think you are looking at about 900 for a proper cage that is not just cosmetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 www.northoffroad.co.uk Address for ya. These guys are to be reocommended..Very helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest l90truck Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 WWW.TORNADOMOTORSPORT.COM IS THE PLACE TO GO HE CUSTOM MAKES CAGES TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Shaun at North offroad gets my money every time - they are in stockton on tees, his work is excellent and prices arent bad either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Thanx all. Have contacted http://www.ppcages.com/ and http://www.northoffroad.co.uk/ yesterday asking for a price. No reply as yet. Does that mean that asking for a price is the wrong question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 No. In the case of North Offroad it just means that they are very busy. Sometimes best to phone rather than e-mail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 No. In the case of North Offroad it just means that they are very busy. Sometimes best to phone rather than e-mail... Definitely better to phone rather than email Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 And make sure you get serious front hoop brackets with the rollcage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonewestnz Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 An old post but a new question/observation I would like a full external cage for my 90CSW but it doesn't appear any of these cages meet MSA standards. I have been speaking to Kim @ PP cages and Christine at North off road. Apparently North off-road do a full external cage with an internal cross that they are trying to get approved by MSA and the only other option is to go for a very nice PP Internal rear external front cage or full internal but the trade off for no room in the back is a bit of a big ask for my use. The Whitbread full external looks good but again apparently it is not MSA regs. Safety devices replied saying none of their cages are MSA certified and asked why I needed it! I was a bit taken aback by this comment as I want to get a cage for any eventuality I am likely to need so makes sense to go for MSA one. I did consider converting to a truck cab but prefer the utility of the full body although as stated this will be compromised with internal MSA cage. Are there any full external cages that I haven't considered that are MSA approved. Being based in NE Scotland I am going to have to travel to get a cage sorted it seams though. I have spoken to portal rover in Inverness who are also looking for a full external option for me but don't hold much hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmac Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I don't see how you could ever have a full external cage that meets MSA requirements without losing room in the back. As far as I understand it, an MSA cage needs to have diagonal stays going from the top of the main hoop (just behind the driver) back down to the chassis rails in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Yup, agreed jackmac, you need the stays, so... internal hoop and rear stays are pretty much a must, then you can do what you like on the outside. I built mine like this on my RRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Removable rear stays? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonewestnz Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Yes Jackmac that's my understanding of the rules too but North off road say they are in process of getting approval so will have to wait and see if they can work it out but I have my doubts. Muddy not sure removable stays would be practical or even MSA certifiable perhaps someone could tell us. Looks like I'll be going for a PP internal external although I see they also have an option for full internal with an additional external front hoop but that may just be OTT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Removable stays and cross-braces are compliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Last time I spoke to nor they were still a spare time business. .. so replies to messages might take a while. .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmac Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Their comms seems to have improved a lot since they were taken over a while ago, make sure you phone rather than email though. I have the NOR cage with internal brace, it seems strong enough but I've never rolled it. If you want a cage partly so that you can can avoid body damage, then you really want full external. Internal rear just means the tree you were sliding along with the front half of your cage is going to cave the back half of your roof in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonewestnz Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I've found Christine at NOR answers my emails in a timlely manner they appear to be striving hard to get the business back to full strength. Yes Jacmac my roof shows signs of some close encounters with trees and steep banks that would have been avoided with a full external cage which is why I was looking at this option. Do you have any pictures of the cage you have fitted? It looks like a rear internal hoop with cross and rear braces and full external would meet my needs but that sounds like it would be very heavy and expensive and the price will just escalate with lighter tubing. The original reason I looked at converting to a truck cab was cab external cage is cheaper and with no roof at back to hit solves that issue and lots of folk make MSA truck cab cages. Also truck cab would reduce the centre of gravity slightly? One comment I had from a land rover friend was that removing the CSW roof and putting a truck cab on would significantly reduce the weight over the back axle thus reducing downward pressure and rear traction off road particularly when climbing or descending steep slopes.I was intrigued by this theory but questioned what about the successful winch challenge vehicles with truck cabs or with tray backs and pointed to the fact any high up roof weight is not so good on side slopes. I begged to differ but to coincide the rules of physics are why a cage is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmac Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 It was supplied by NOR as a flatpack cage I think, put together by previous owner. A truck cab definitely has an advantage in terms of its size, but as this is my only vehicle I need something more practical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Roll cages are an interesting topic, in my experience they are a very, very cheap form of life insurance policy, I only needed one once, we flipped at a tad over 180KPH during the Rally of Canberra and rolled six times, three times end to end (at one point we were reported to be 15' in the air) and then three times side over landing back on all four wheels and facinmg in the correct direction , the only straight panel on the rally car was the fuel filler lid, my eldest son & heir who was my navigator insisten we carry on, I pinted out that while the engine was still running we no longer had a windscreen at which point he went into hysterics, thought it was the funniest thing I had ever said anyway when we put the car on the chassis robot it was only 3mm out of true !!! in short the bodywork was only there to hide the rollcage from view. Son & heir later told me that he was always confident thet he would never he hurt navigating for me because his mother would kill me if he was A few pointers, 1.) make sure its make from seamless steel pipe, Chrome Moly preferably. 2.) have it installed internally, its there to protect you, not the car. 3.) the hoops are relatively easy to install, form them in the car with location holes the diameter of the pipes in the floor pan, push the hoop(s) up hard to the roof, cut the hoops back to just above the floor pan and slip plates under the hoops and weld the hoops to them, bolt the plates to the floor, this way the cage is hard up against the roof. The hoops should be directly over the front and rear seats to afford maximum protection to the occupants 4.) cross brace as much as possible and extend from the hoops down the "A" and "C" pillars and to the top of the suspension mounts. 5.) Install anti-protrusion bars across the doors at waist height - doors are quite weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Just to digress for a moment. Boydie, that is a magnificent signature Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonewestnz Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Jackmac yes that's the cage Christine at NOR says they have applied for MSA approval and I like for the fact you retain rear load space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Thanks Mo, Just to digress, some years back during the rally of WA, Roger Freeth died in an accident while Peter (Possum) Bourne was driving, they were in a works Subaru WRX. The car became airborne as it went over a crest and hit a tree, roughly in the area of the "B" pillar on the right hand side - Rogers side as it was a european LHD vehicle, Roger died at the scene of the accident. The findings were thus, the rear anchorage of the drivers and navigators harnesses were attached to the rear panel at the baby seat retaining points, not on the roll cage, this method was quite acceptable at the time and well within the international competition rules and satisfied all engineering requirements. The unfortunate fact was that the car body split, and part of the rear of the car (boot and rear from the "B" pillar back) seperated from the front, Rogers harness was consequently snapped back and the harness crushed his chest causing his death. So, be warned, fix your harness to the roll cage if you are going to be serious about being competative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 That.... is a good warning... and I could see what you were going to say before you said it, with a slight sickening feeling in my stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonewestnz Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 A good point and one I had planned to ask cage builder to include with cage. PP cages include harness bars which I like as gets the harness at the best height and angle for a safe fit . Not sure how much competition I'm going to do but the most robust cage I have seen is PP's FIA cage it looks very solid and a work of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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