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new defender


boaterboy

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Would have liked to see some sacrificial plastic wheel arches - a little like the latest jeep or maybe the deign below.

Can you imagine what those big metal arches will look like after they've seen a few trees?

More like a few shopping trollies, Looks like something Tamiya radio control made :(

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Trouble is..... everyone on here and other pro-Land Rover sites are unlikely to like the replacement, whatever it is. And at a guess only a small percentage of the people on the enthusiast forums ever buy brand new anyway. The people who really have to like the new design for it to be a success are those currently buying the bling Japanese pickups and SUVs. That is on the only way LR will get back to selling 60K units.

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Trouble is..... everyone on here and other pro-Land Rover sites are unlikely to like the replacement, whatever it is. And at a guess only a small percentage of the people on the enthusiast forums ever buy brand new anyway. The people who really have to like the new design for it to be a success are those currently buying the bling Japanese pickups and SUVs. That is on the only way LR will get back to selling 60K units.

That is very true. I very much doubt that whatever LR come up with will appeal to most 'enthusiasts' because, as you say, so much of that sector is made up of people who do not buy brand new. Unless Land Rover truly want to appeal to the utility / commercial / military etc type markets whatever they come up with is going to be aimed at a much wider public who are more used to a diet of bland euroboxes or so called crossovers than anything else.

Still, the illustrations are just a concept, until the final design is revealed then all this is just so much conjecture and speculation rather like all the other conjecture and speculation that has appeared regarding the replacement over the years.

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Trouble is..... everyone on here and other pro-Land Rover sites are unlikely to like the replacement, whatever it is. And at a guess only a small percentage of the people on the enthusiast forums ever buy brand new anyway. The people who really have to like the new design for it to be a success are those currently buying the bling Japanese pickups and SUVs. That is on the only way LR will get back to selling 60K units.

Whilst there is some truth in that, I think there is a real appetite for a new model...they just have to get it right...unfortunately they have not

I think that Jeep managed to update the wrangler in a way that kept it true to its brand and image.

If Land Rover had done the same then I would be the first to applaud them.

And just to prove I am not a complete luddite, I love the Evoque and will have one on order the very next time I win the Lotto Jackpot ;)

PS dont forget that the second hand market is very important...high residuals are part of what keep premium brands premium.

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I remember when the Freelander came out and the sky was falling because it's not a proper Land Rover. Turns out they are very good and more enthusiasts are running them as daily drivers.

Pick any new LR model and it's not "proper", it's too shiny/expensive/complicated, has too many electrics, you can't fix it at home, etc. etc... ten years down the line they'll be just another LR being used, abused & fixed the same as everything else.

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I remember when the Freelander came out and the sky was falling because it's not a proper Land Rover. Turns out they are very good and more enthusiasts are running them as daily drivers.

Pick any new LR model and it's not "proper", it's too shiny/expensive/complicated, has too many electrics, you can't fix it at home, etc. etc... ten years down the line they'll be just another LR being used, abused & fixed the same as everything else.

I'd say the new Discos were proper, just modern. All these damn electronics seem to be a fact of life these days.

and the Freebie was a new model entirely, not a replacement of the Defender!

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14528047

Still relevant That prompts the question: redesign or no redesign, is the Defender quite simply obsolete?

_54612729_54612728.jpg Relying on military customers is tricky, Land Rover bosses say "It's very long in the tooth," acknowledges Mr Edwards, though he nevertheless insists the Defender remains relevant.

"It's very important that we don't forget Land Rover and its capability. We are working very hard on the non-Range Rover badge products in our range.

"Replacing [the Defender] is going to be quite a challenge, but also an opportunity," says Mr Edwards. "But we're definitely doing it.

"We'll want to replace the car as it currently occupies the market. We certainly don't want to move it upmarket and become a sort of 'Range Rover Defender'. That doesn't work at all."

New Defender "One of our problems in the past looking to replace the Defender has been to get the business case together," observes managing director Mr Green. "Military contracts are fine, but you might get 5,000 orders one year, 200 the next."

_54658022_dsc_0367.jpg Land Rover believes its models are equally capable offroad, in spite of their different looks A more promising market might be in developing countries such as Brazil, Russia, India and China, where working vehicle sales are booming in parallel with rapid economic growth that is predicted to continue for decades yet.

To succeed in these markets, a new Defender will need to be able to compete on both price and quality. It will need to be both cheaper - so the cost of production will need to come down - and better, in terms of both capabilities and fuel economy.

And that may well prove an even trickier challenge than the creation of an urban warrior with designer looks.

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Getting costs down shouldn't be too difficult since the current Defender, beautiful though it is ( well the 90 anyway :P )is a labour intensive, hand built anachronism. Modern materials and production methods will see costs plummet and the profit margin soar.

Mo

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I'm wondering if TATA will help influence them with targeting the developing world rather than chasing the high end - keep it really simple, cheap, and robust but with better quality than a lot of the developing manufacturers (TATA, Dacia, Lada, and the numerous Chinese / eastern manufacturers). Could be a proper winner.

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Trouble is..... everyone on here and other pro-Land Rover sites are unlikely to like the replacement, whatever it is. And at a guess only a small percentage of the people on the enthusiast forums ever buy brand new anyway. The people who really have to like the new design for it to be a success are those currently buying the bling Japanese pickups and SUVs. That is on the only way LR will get back to selling 60K units.

Or they could make it comparable to the current Jeep Wrangler JK, sell it in the states and shift 100,000 units per year just like the JK! They would still only sell 200 or so a month in the UK, but that would be 200 very happy UK customers.

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Whilst there is some truth in that, I think there is a real appetite for a new model...they just have to get it right...unfortunately they have not

They have yet to launch anything - or even reveal what they are launching. This is a concept car, a way for designers to explore ideas and designs.

assembling the current Defender in the east as Rest of World type of vehicle from LR?

The current model is too expensive to manufacture, the very thing that makes it unsuitable in developing country markets where price is very important.

I think we need to accept that the Defender body shape as we know it is a 65 year old design and does not meet current needs and concerns - economically, environmentally, ergonomically... if perhaps aesthetically. :)

Chris

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Hi All

Just found this on the Piston Heads site, what does everyone think?

Apologies if you have seen this before or if the link doesn't work but its worth pasting in to your browser so you can have a look

Cheers

Bigant

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=24227

hi,saw it on the news tonight, although couldn't listen her indoor's kept yapping, dd

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I don't like it, and the thing is that this (not to start a flame war here or anything) is THE LR model above all others.

The Defender is the one that has the most DNA from the original design and so they need to be very careful how they play it. They must be able to stick a new engine in, keep the current shape (or tweak a little) and redesign for ease of manufacture just as easily as they can put that thing together...

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The Defender is the one that has the most DNA from the original design and so they need to be very careful how they play it. They must be able to stick a new engine in, keep the current shape (or tweak a little) and redesign for ease of manufacture just as easily as they can put that thing together...

Like you I don't to provoke anyone into some sort of flaming session,

but ;) I do think that LR need to further much further than tweaking the old Defender - comfort levels, safety, fuel economy, production methods etc absolutely require it.

However as other people have said - look at the new wrangler, I presume it meets all those requirements, but still looks like a jeep. They managed a suitable update (including a military version...Why can't JLR?

Granted the DC100 is a concept car, and an early one at that, but JLR have form for giving us concepts that look very like the final product, and if no one protests, that may well be what the next defender will look like the DC100.

Still...If a real Land Rover is no longer available I can always go out and buy a real Jeep :D

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They must be able to stick a new engine in, keep the current shape (or tweak a little) and redesign for ease of manufacture just as easily as they can put that thing together...

I suspect that is what we will get. I believe that the shape of the front end is an issue from a pedestrian safety perspective and there seems no way around that other then using a lot of plastic and getting rid of all the edges - like making the lights flush with the body, not having a big separate bumper for example. Fuel economy must also be a consideration so perhaps the new Defender will be built less heavily and more streamlined. I suspect this will mean deletion of guttering, exterior hinges, recessed windows etc.

I bet my existing Defender wheel collection will not fit.

Chris

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