ejparrott Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 With my Series 4-speed going while on holiday. there's a bit more urgency to my plan to convert the 88 to an LT77, which I plan to do in such a way as to retain the Series transfer box. Ashcroft used to do a kit for this, but I'm given to believe it's out of stock with no plans to restock. I've emailed to ask if they have a drawing of the interface plate between LT and t'box, but I doubt very much they'll share it with me if I'm honest. I have the means to measure it all up if they won't, but the only thing I'm not 100% on is the orientation of the holes. Would it be a fair assumption to assume that the flat top of the series transfer box and the flat top of the LT77 (where the levers bolt) are both horizontal when correctly installed in the vehicle? I haven't got an original assembly of either that I could reliably use to gauge it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Personally I'd try phoning them rather than emailing. See what they can sort. Although, I'm not really sure why you'd want an LT77 in a Series anyhow, the 4 speeder is arguably nicer to use and certainly has a nicer feel and shift to it. And unless you are brutal with it, or have a juicy engine, then it should be plenty strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 200TDi. The one that's just died is probably as a result of the TDi, but it would be the first attributable to it. The LT77 is undeniably quieter, and as it's our everyday car, every little helps. I've already done The 109, and that's made a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Bit more room for the rear prop on a 109 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I had one of the ashcroft kits years ago. Bought it, looked at it, decided I didnt like it so sold it on and made my own conversion. In the end i gave up with the one i'd made too, and just fitted an LT230, which frankly was what i should have done in the first place! Whilst its interesting from an engineering point of view the difficult bit is making the input gear. The LT77 is infinately nicer to drive than the horrible series gearbox, and considerably quieter to boot, plus the massive advantage of a 5th gear. Finally there is a huge advantage to having gearbox internals that arent made of cheese and break every five seconds...... I'd recommend just fitting an LT77 and LT230 and leaving it at that. I dont even bother with the 2wd conversion (its massively overpriced anyway) and just run full time 4wd. Mines an 88" and the props are not silly short. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 What Jon said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'm not disagreeing with either of you, and I have on several occasions pointed out to other people that you guys both run permanent 4wd with series front axles and UJ's, and the world has yet to implode. I fitted the LT77/LT230 to The 109, and I do think it's much much better than the Series 4-speed. There's no front prop on that yet, and the clutch pedal assembly needs rebuilding and the clutch doesn't quite disengage completely. Oh and the output shaft is worn out so it bangs about a bit. Problem is, unless someone knows otherwise, it's impossible to fit that combination without changing the tunnel and seatbox (or at least the middle bit) to a 90/110 setup, which I'm not prepared to do as I have a Wright Off-Road soundproof set fitted. I believe - still to be confirmed - that an LT77 can be fitted to a Series tunnel, just requiring a slight modification in the top for the change lever, provided the shift mechanism for the LT230 is not present. I believe the box is narrow enough and not too tall to fit. I also believe that the red and yellow levers could be made to operate the HiLo and Difflock mechanisms on the LT230 fairly easily. But I don't currently have the time to play with all that. Whilst The 109 is getting there and is starting to become user friendly, there's still a number of reasons why we just can't be without Kettle. That's why she'll be getting The 109's old box for a quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Can you not make your own cable operated LT230 change mech? Could make it much more compact and therefore fit under the tunnel...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I think you can. Using the Series HiLo lever I think you can couple to the LT230 HiLo very easily. I think the Series High range 4WD drive could be made to work the difflock too, although it would be a little more tricky. First test is the LT77 and the tunnel, but I haven't really time to play around with it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Yes LT77 mated to a series transfer box can be made to fit under a series tunnel.....ish....... The front part needs modifying to clear the bell housing (needs extending by about 50mm iirc) then the other bit needs shortening to suit. however the red and yellow levers move back around 100mm iirc as the gearbox itself is longer. I'm sure you could make them fit the same holes, but for me it was easier and quicker to make new floor plates. In short you aren't going to get an lt77 in there with your soundproofing kit without modifying it. I would cut the central part of the soundproofing out, replace the trans tunnel with a defender one (a series seat box can be made to sit ok) and then just use the defender trans tunnel soundproofing along with the jake wright bits the fit the footwells. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 I've had a quick play with the tunnel bits and the LT77 on the floor this morning, can't see why you need to extend the front by 50mm? Measuring from the flywheel housing of the TDi out to the edge of the diaphragm and then measuring the same on the LT it seems like it'll fit fine. Very close but it fits. Might be a slight issue though with the plunger doo dah on the side of the shifter, I wonder if that can be re-engineered...... Hole in the top will need moving for the shifter but that seems to be all. We'll try the LT in place in Kettle tomorrow, I wasn't going to pull the clutch when I did it but for the sake of a few minutes I might and then we can put the LT right up to the flywheel housing and have a proper look and get the LT sitting the right height. It looks like the LT fitting will have to wait until the chassis swap happens though. I was toying with the idea of using the spare engine, rebuilt, and then when the chassis swap happens, it'll only be a case really of moving fuet tank body and axles and we'll be all but mobile again. That means rebuild a Series gearbox again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 It doesn't look like you have to......until you try and fit it. Trust me it will not fit un modified. The lower inner corners hit the bell housing. I can't remember the exact measurement, but I know I had to weld a strip in. It was a lot of years ago..... Iirc regarding the plunger I think I just bent the rod to suit, as it's z shaped anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Will look more tomorrow..think I will pop the clutch off, for the sake of 5 minutes work putting it back on before we fit the replacement 4-speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Without going too far O/T, does the R380 work to? The reason for asking is that I have a LT230 in the shed and been hounded for some time to buy a R380 that's surplus in a friends garage. I can get it at a good price but it's the labor involved which has me scratching my head.....is it worth it? "Assuming" that all of the LR 5 speeds can be installed, if the motor stays in it's present location what is the list of jobs need doing? New trans mounts, cross member ? longer propshafts (both) ?? Is it more labor involved for a 88" vers an 109" ? Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 I'd say no, having done The 109. I have retained the original engine position (in The 109 this is) and the series gearbox crossmember. I have made custom mounts to fit the LT230 to the crossmember. I have chopped and modded the crossmember behind the gearbox, its now removable. Reason being you can't get the LT230 off the LT77 if you don't, and the handbrake is a swine too. The props are custom, although I haven't looked at a front one yet so something might fit. Only thing to be wary off is the flywheel housing crossmember, but it's on a 1-ton chassis anyway so it has the dent in the top of it. Lying under the 88 the other day looking at it, I reckon I can pull the same stunt with the gearbox crossmember for starters, but I don't think I'll need to mod the chassis otherwise, until I get a tape in there anyway. It had about 10" clear behind the handbrake, and the LT77 is only 4" longer. If you were to use an R380, you'd have to get a stumpy LT replacement version, the standard one is too long for an 88. A friend has fitted a standard one to a 109, but to move the gear lever forward he's built a 101 style linkage. Looking at the two gearboxes, it would appear there isn't much size difference between the two, but I do know there are different tunnels for the R380, which is much wider where it joins the seatbox. That might just be realted to LT230 mechanism though, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Doing a search on here revealed that the R380 is about 50mm longer than the LT77, but the crunch is that the gearsticks, even on stumpy, are 4" further back, which made it impractical in an 88, and necessitated a Stage 1 front end. And a Disco box is just too long and the sticks 12" further back. Lost there thread now, but was pretty comprehensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Just before hoicking the series box in on Friday, David and I popped the LT77 in and had a look at it. Seems as though it will go with just a few tweaks. With where my bulkhead is sitting, the diaphragm only fouls by about 10mm, so in line with some previous thinking on other bits I think I'll be macking some custom engine mounts, one option being to use the rear set of holes on the n/s of the 200TDi engine block to move it forward 25mm, then a custom o/s mount. With the shifter for the LT230 gone there's no problems there, just a simple blanking plate to keep the muck out. The only problem seems to be the spring loaded plunger on the side of the shifter, which isn't present on an R380, but looking at it we think we can probably re-engineer something, or else it's quite a small dent required in the side of the tunnel, which shouldn't affect the WOR soundproofing. It'll have to wait though, I don't think I can do all the work in double quick time and we need the 88 at the moment, so a good plan seems to be to wait until I get the new chassis for her. At that stage I can rebuild the spare engine and bulkhead, play around with gearboxes and exhausts to my hearts content, then when all is ready transfer all the other bits like axles and bodywork over in quite a short space of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I've been undecided about this LT77/230 conversion for some time,well till I saw this thread and the fact that my transmission and transfer case both leak like there's not end of oil. But Monday the transmission got very noisy......not good. Anyway's I bought this: I'll pick it up tomorrow at work. Seeing that I have a Hybrid 88" that is coil sprung, will there be any problems with the rear propshaft? Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I run a 88" rr propshaft at the back, and a def 90 rr propshaft at the front, both unaltered. My wheelbase is 89" though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I run a 88" rr propshaft at the back, and a def 90 rr propshaft at the front, both unaltered. My wheelbase is 89" though. Sorry daan, but does "rr" mean? When you write "unaltered" it throws Range Rover straight out the window! LOL Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 He means rear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 He means rear Yes, just lazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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