David_LLAMA4x4 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Please take a couple of minutes to fill in this online survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/C6B9ZXL Th Donington 4x4 Show 2015 is set for feb 15th but I have had an idea for a new day out in June Many thanks David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Oooer... But donnington is quite a unique and specialist formula that is different to all the rest.... Dont **** it up Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Don't worry, Donington is, and within my control, will stay just like Donington should be !! What I am on about is an extra day out, not an instead of... See you in Feb!!! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkrover Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Donnington is a good start to the year, but were would you fit another show in to the calendar ? My calendar year is pretty full as it is an always a compromise between events Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'm afraid I agree with Les - there are too many shows already. Particularly from a traders point of view. If you could offer something with a unique selling point, it could work - and more so if one of the other shows vanished. The USP's of Donington is it being indoor which is great in the winter, being single day and being unashamedly a shopping trip. If there is more than one, it becomes less of a USP. However, based on your past record, there is nobody I would trust more to come up with a good concept and make it a success! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Valid points - and I admit I only have arguments against some of them.... Donington must stay donington. But I think Ican do an outside show in the summer that might just be different enough to justify a day out.... All the bits missing from Donington - autojumble, clubs, displays - but with a few quirks. Not so much a unique selling point but a range of points offering enough that cumulatively they are enough to add another show to the calendar. Si & Nigel, give me a call when you get 5 mins - I would like an opinion on some of my dreams!! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Best indoor 4x4 event = donnington Best autojumble = okd Sodbury I do both of the above Only do Donnington as a trader Only do Old Sodbury as a buyer Both as Si R says have usps Billing Peterborough Beaulieu bristol West 4x4 and others dont really. ..just another / big show Dont confuse qusntity wigh quality dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Earlier in the year, I went to Nobby's "Welsh Extrem" competition at Walters Arena - and it was great! Not great because of the competing but because it was the first UK event I've been to that captured a bit of the European 'Belgium National' of old feel. Those of you who visited the Belgium National 10 years ago will know what I mean - I only wish I'd taken photos and could capture the 'feel' of it. I think Nobby's event has the potential to turn in to something really big. I wonder if, like Belgium, a trade show would work as a part of it? There are definitely moves in that direction - but what it needs is someone really good at shows to figure it out, leaving Nobby to concentrate on running the competition - which he's really good at! David, I think you and I may have discussed something like this in the past, possibly in connection with Gwyn? Just a thought anyway! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 How many shows can there be? It's just the same old "challenge" and "extreme" tat, paraded about. The best get together is Newbury sortout, do one of those at Peterborough and I'm there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hello Agree with the Extreme stuff - remember to spell it wrong as well, must be with an Xtreme rather than an Extreme. I am not sure that extreme stuff has had any actual benefit to the wider 4x4 appeal and has I am sure actually been detrimental to any new people taking up the hobby - go and watch a load of 4x4's dangling on a piece of string and smashing themselves up and it would put anyone off using their own 4x4 at any kind of offroad event... I am not saying we should not have the Xtreme but it should be made clear that this is a minority of 4x4 use and not the only option as so many magazines and forums suggest.... David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I am not sure that extreme stuff has had any actual benefit to the wider 4x4 appeal and has I am sure actually been detrimental to any new people taking up the hobby - go and watch a load of 4x4's dangling on a piece of string and smashing themselves up and it would put anyone off using their own 4x4 at any kind of offroad event... Abso-friggin-lutely! Without getting into a debate about the 'xtreme' scene, it certainly isn't for the majority of people who don't want to damage their truck and it's become more about winch gymnastics than driving/team skill. Stages can be non-damaging and still require good skills / teamwork to negotiate. I never made it to any of the Belgium nationals but they always looked brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 You're right - on second thoughts! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Case in point: Last 7 Sisters me & Perv wandered over to the rock steps they'd cut in for KOV. They are about 5' high vertical rock steps. There is no way any vehicle could drive it, whatsoever, so there is zero driver or spotting skill in it. All you can possibly do is winch out & drag yourself up it like a sled, which is going to do damage to anything and doesn't require any great skill. I could armour the underside of the Freelander and do just as well as anyone dragging my belly up there. So what's the point? I've got a portal-axled fully caged truck in my shed but I have no desire to smash it to bits at an event like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 They are about 5' high vertical rock steps. There is no way any vehicle could drive it, I recon there might be some buggies this year that could just about drive it or some of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The rock steps were sponsored by UK Winch Ropes, and were purposefully made to be winched up. They set a UK event away from American events, as its well known the UK is famous for winching! I must add, your slating the "xtreme" scene, but do you not see in the states rock buggys that go fast is the cool thing to be doing? I think it would be good for the UK off road scene to make off roading a bit more "cool". There is room for so many more companys here where the more extreme style offroading hasnt caught on yet. You old boys seem to be... well... too old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 There does seem now days to be an element of willy waving and chequebook motors creeping into the sport. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I admit that I am now well past the halfway point of my life - I am getting old. However I am not trying to stand in the way of change - I think I might have written that I am not against the extreme stuff. there is also potential for more sales from this side of the business - I already supply 'johnny' style joints to many Xtreme companies and individuals and have always sold hoses that go beyond what even the top flight of UK competitors need, want or afford. All I am saying is that there are pitfalls to only promoting this side of offroading: It will deter people from entering the sport in a more normal, affordable vehicle which is only going to be bad for longevity of the entire industry ( even down to spare parts for normal road 4x4s ) if no new blood joins. It has also sprung up a whole level of copycat , trying to be extreme 4x4's that are built on a shoestring and are quite honestly horrible!!! A boring old ALRC 80" trialler is far more capable and lasts for more than 40 minutes of an event. I am all in favour of the extreme events ( I am actually a sponsor of KOV again this year! Marshall's vets bear the Llama 4x4 logo. This year the Marshalls packed lunches are being paid for by me!" I love the extreme and support it - even if I am an old git. BUT some of that age might just have brought some experiences with it that can see the problems in only promoting one field of the sport. I do not fear progress - I embrace it. I do fear change for the hell of it that has no overall benefit... David ( AKA the old git up the corner who might just have a point if the kids of today were forward thinking enough to listen ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 A shame that the grass roots competitor seems to have vanished; comp safari got expensive, because you need the trick suspension and the tuned engine, then you had challenge, which also got expensive because of the winches and purpose built axles. Now we have U4, which needs the trick suspension, tuned engine, expensive winches and axles. You cannot blame the organizers, they have a everyman challenge as well to cater for the grassroots competitor, but on KOG, this had zero entrants! I dont think the copycat thing is new though, one reason why I wouldn't want to make or sell landy bits for a living. Anyway, to stay on topic, I recon we dont need more shows, just try to merge elements of different shows together to make it more interesting. Also, you cannot expect all the traders to go to all shows, so by having fewer shows, you ensure plenty of traders and plenty of visitors. Just some rumblings.... Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You cannot blame the organizers, they have a everyman challenge as well to cater for the grassroots competitor, but on KOG, this had zero entrants! There was no Every Man Challenge at KOG its only running at KOV this year (plus have you been to Scotland, Croatia feels closer ) Why not have a show or "festival" that is like a big play day weekend like they do in the south of France, I can remember the name of it now but it looks fun. The traders are all there too but they are not the only reason to go to the event..... I guess location is the restriction for this sort of thing in the UK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I like that idea Mr Moose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smego Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Maassive mud run is missing from most events! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 This is probably a bit of a rant but I think I'm not alone in deserting the UK magazines and shows. The UK isn't big enough to support the the kind of "off road" scene found abroad, a disused sand quarry off the A1 is not the california desert! This seeming obsession with "xtreme" has done the core (as in those of us that have been involved for years and will continue to be) no favours. Once we were seen as a bunch of harmless eccentrics, now we're mud covered chavs, your local green lanes will have been wrecked by a bunch of clueless knobs in mail order lift kit Discos sporting "one life live it" stickers, because that's what the shows and mag's promote. Get back to what Land rover ownership and Land Rover shows once were, progress does not mean extreme. I'll now go back to my beer and pipe. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Webster Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 A shame that the grass roots competitor seems to have vanished; comp safari got expensive, because you need the trick suspension and the tuned engine, then you had challenge, which also got expensive because of the winches and purpose built axles. Yes it is a pity, but I'm not sure it need be the case. We won our class and were 15th overall in the Welsh Hillrally at the weekend in a Tdi Discovery that cost just a few thousand pounds! Maybe the grass roots isn't quite dead yet. Fantastic off road racing. H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollywog Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 If you want to put on something unique how about a showcase of the alternative offroad fun from around the world; Tuck Trials, Tractor Pull, Bog Racing, Icelandic Formula Offroad, Trophy Trucks, etc. etc. All the stuff I used to watch on DSF but now can't get. Sure it might be a logistical nightmare but it would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 This is probably a bit of a rant but I think I'm not alone in deserting the UK magazines and shows. The UK isn't big enough to support the the kind of "off road" scene found abroad, a disused sand quarry off the A1 is not the california desert! This seeming obsession with "xtreme" has done the core (as in those of us that have been involved for years and will continue to be) no favours. Once we were seen as a bunch of harmless eccentrics, now we're mud covered chavs, your local green lanes will have been wrecked by a bunch of clueless knobs in mail order lift kit Discos sporting "one life live it" stickers, because that's what the shows and mag's promote. Get back to what Land rover ownership and Land Rover shows once were, progress does not mean extreme. I'll now go back to my beer and pipe. A thousand times this. The overland scene is also going this way - now you are expected to have thousands of pounds worth of ARB / Hannibal accessories just to spend a week in Morocco... The looks and comments the missus and I get when we talk about our travel plans for our SIII 109 with a bodged up plywood sleeping platform in the back. "Where's your fridge/winch/lift/awning/lockers/storage system/solar panels/inverter?" I swear people spend more time fettling than actually going places, due to this perception being peddled by Foleys et al that your vehicle needs to be able to survive WW3 before you leave the country... Read "Appointment in Zambia" where a couple with no experience managed the trip in a Hillman Hunter... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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