Jump to content

Whats a vapour build? o/d non mechanical actuation and re


wood-gee

Recommended Posts

I've got a few musings that today that I'd be really interested to hear anyone's opinion on. I've been fantasizing about the wright off road matting stuff, and after finally securing a big boy job upon finishing uni, realised that this fantasy could actually be made a reality.

It has led me to think about a couple of issues in terms of practicality that I might try and tackle first though. Firstly, you'd have to cut another hole for the overdrive lever, so it got me wondering about alternative overdrive actuation, either electric or pneumatic. Has anyone had any experience with this, or can anyone think of a reason that it's a silly idea?

The other thing it got me thinking about was gearbox oil filling; with a matt over the top, gearbox access is obviously limited, and i wouldn't want to cut any more holes in the matt than necessary//would prefer to avoid having to remove it whenever i wanted to top up the 'box. Can anyone think of any obvious reason why not to have the likes of a series non servo brake fluid reservoir attached to the inside of the seat box (so like under the middle seat), with a length of tube feeding into the top of the 'box.

Final point, not really related to anything...what's a vapour build? I've seen the term on this forum a few times now, and it's always followed by some interesting ideas, but am sadly feeling thoroughly noobish and have no idea of it's meaning!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The actuator would be a pretty cool idea, and I don't see why It can't be done with a small pneumatic ram. Might be a bit awkward trying to press the button or whatever I between clutching and shifting the main lever.

A vapour build is just an idea that you hypothetically build in your head or on paper/Internet, and not in real life. Our own O'teunico has a few vapour build threads in the international section

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A vapour build is very much where you are now, but perhaps generally on a bigger scale.

You have got two ideas, which are either unique, or very close to being so, AND when you look into them further, the impracticalities may present problems which it's too expensive or complicated to overcome.

Re filling the Series box, you don't seem to have covered checking the level. The standard system does this when oil comes out of the filling hole in the side of the box. Of course, the Series box has been around so long that there are variations, the early ones filled through the top, not the side, but you still removed the side (level) plug to know when 'level' had been reached.

Re OD activation, your first task is to see how much force is required to move the actual change fork.

If you use pneumatics you need to also build a compressed air supply, so electrical seems simplest.

Investigate if there are conditions of transmission wing-up when the gears may not want to disengage. You might need one solenoid to engage, and another to disengage.

Also remember that the Fairey OD is considered to work its limited supply of oil quite hard. Your should consider 'simple filling' systems for all three boxes, gearbox, transfer box, OD.

When you have researched all these you may find that your preference for a fully sealed WOR cover is impractical, because of the problems it causes.

Thus, Vapour Build.

Which model of Series are you considering here, One, Two, or Three?

HTH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers for the replies guys; and the advice on the meaning of a vapour build... definitely spend an alarming amount of my time mentally doing those myself in that case, 99% of which never amount to anything but I like to justify it to myself in that it has to be good for the problem solving skills!

To reply to the shorter posts first, Nigel hit the nail on the head with regards to my thoughts on button location, and which I agree would tackle the problem of it being a bit awkward which Josh raised.

I had considered hydraulic Qwaker, but concluded it may be a little too involved (in fact the same statement would apply to pneumatic, but that sprang to mind as I recently pulled apart a disco 1 heater box which had a neat little pneumatic actuator to adjust a flap).. to get back on track though, I was trying to steer towards a solution off a switch, which would result in a solenoid motor or similar being needed to drive the master cylinder, can't comment without further research but doing that might cause issues on shift time? Although conversely, given the fairly stiff feeling shift rod, hydraulic may well be the only thing capable of sufficient force.

Cheers for the detailed response David; to start off with the level checking, my box fills from the top (it's a 72 SIII incidentally, but that doesn't mean the 'box is the same vintage). What I was proposing doing was continuing to use the level plug, with the remote filler simply relocating the location. Could possibly even T off the filler to add another breather, although that entirely depends on whether breathing is normally an issue for series 'boxes. Also probably worth clarifying on that point that I'm purely talking about the gearbox here for a remote filler, overdrive and transfer box would retain stock set up. As an aside while I'm rambling, kind of feel a better breather for the overdrive wouldn't go amiss as the current afair seems a bit basic, and resuts in it always being ampley damp.

I whole heartedly agree on assessing force needed to actuate, I think that would very much steer type of actuator//what's feasible, and hoping to test it this weekend to get a ball park figure. I was really hoping that a central locking actuator might produce enough force, push and pull and also have a bit of 'float' around they're extended and retracted positions, allowing a little less accuracy in the system.

Is there any way you might suggest ascertaining points where it may be tricky to change? My thirst thoughts would be that they would be trickiest to shift when loaded, or would it be when stationary as there's no assistance from the synchro ring?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm thinking of a wiper motor for actuation on the winch levers. With two micro-switches to stop it at max forward and park. You throw the switch and a relay latches turning the motor until the micro switch 'breaks' the latch wire on the relay. Same thing as it continues to the next position. You could have a single button to 'bump' the motor past the micro-switch so it continues turning until the next micro-switch. So 'tap' to go up. tap to change down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Military gearboxes had top fill. I've never found the need for it, I always fill from underneath via the level plug with an oil can.

I have a wright off road soundproof kit, never worried me putting the hole in for the overdrive. It has a diff lock gaitor over it to keep the draught out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vapour builds are generally dreamers; most of us dream about great projects, some of them post their dreams in a build thread. The ones that post their dreams are generally known on here 'vapour builders'. A few actually start building it, but then go quiet. They have given up, got even better dreams or ended up on ebay for a song. The problem of starting a dream build and think of even better dreams later on, tends to make build times infinitely long and is also bound to end up in a vapour build.

o'teunico calls himself a vapour build specialist, but has moved on to greater things, he is actually building something that will get mot'd shortly!

Vapour builders can be annoying, but also fantastically entertaining for general abuse and 'I told you so' remarks.

Daan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Vaporware I believe.

Pneumatic actuators are a nice simple choice, you may not have an air supply but you have a vacuum supply for your brakes, vacuum actuators are used for turbos/VNT's, cruise control, heating vents, difflock (on old RR's) etc. so there's plenty of suitable actuators out there, and a simple mechanical air/vacuum switch will do the control nicely - Hyphose have a variety, including some which look like normal electrical toggle switches (I use these for my difflocks).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers for the further suggestions and advice, and point noted on dream builds Daan: I know I've been a built guilty of bringing up slightly silly ideas on this forum before that I've later concluded where too far fetched to bother with.

I recognise that the idea of coming up with some elaborate way to shift the overdrive is maybe a bit overkill, and in fairness having to shift with two levers has also become less of an issue since putting in a 200tdi, as I'm no longer desperately trying to change gear to maximise what little power I have, but equally I can see various reasons it'd be advantageous. I think what I'll do is have a fiddle this weekend and see what kind of force it requires, and thus what my options are with actuation; there's been a lot of great suggestions here, so plenty of food for thought on that front, and a lot of bits I'd never have thought of, including the diff lock switch and wiper motor!

Filling wise it may be easier to fill from the level plug as you suggested ejparrot, so chances are I may go down that route.

As a question directed towards you as well, may I ask how you find the wright off road matting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy