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newb questions, suspension and wheels and more


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Hi All,

Warning, This is a waffle-y post.

I'm new to landrovers, and i own a 1988 200tdi converted 110 high top (was an ambulance) that is being kitted out as a camper for a european road trip in the next 12-18 months. The truck is probably going to get a bit porky when fully loaded with fuel and gear but not crazily loaded like some of the overlander rigs - just think along the lines of a vw camper conversion.

I've been getting the truck sorted, cambelt and all tensioners rollers etc, genuine water pump, new rad, uprated intercooler, non-leaky fuel tank and so on.

I have a few questions specific to wheels/tyres, suspension and gearing..

What i want to do is put 33" tyres on (255 85 16), to give me a little potential advantage in any rutted lanes, and also to give me slightly longer legs on any long drives (mainly to reduce fuel costs and revs/engine noise at cruising speeds a bit so i can talk to my fellow traveller. I've read alot about people claiming the larger tyres are worth it.

regarding gearing, I already considered a disco transfer box, and bought one, but not fitted do to advice that its a bad idea (overgeared), and that tuning the engine up to compensate is also a bad idea in light of wanting the thing to be reliable on a long trip. I would consider an overdrive, but they seem to cost alot and also wonder if the gearing increase would just be too much for the 200tdi to pull the heavy (and high-roofed) truck along on 33" tyres (but what about if it was on the 750's its currently on?)

So my 2nd conclusion was, put 33's on, stick with the 1.4 transfer box and suck it up - would you agree?

My next question is regarding suspension. My current standard (and i think potentially bodged/mismatched) suspension is saggy and worn out, and leaning on the passenger rear due to a different height or rate spring. I want to renew the lot, and had decided to get a heavy duty small lift kit, to give the 33's a bit of room. I had considered the terrafirma HD kits but was worried they might not handle the weight and mileage, so was seriously considering visiting gwyn lewis for a setup, or getting OME kit. But my local landrover guru tells me the best stuff is the genuine landrover kit. Full stop. I felt that was a bit sweeping but he says in the last 20 years he's sick of taking off crappy suspension kits off and putting genuine kit back on at owners request due to them breaking or generally being carp. He also tells me a lift kit is a waste of time as the truck will end up driving like a dog - more about this in my wheel questions..

I can get new-take-off genuine landrover HD suspension kits, but will these fit my truck and eg handle a trip down the road of bones (its a possibility..) AND give me enough clearance on the 33" tyres? Will it be tough enough for my load, or will e.g. the front springs be too hard (got bull bars but no winch).

Then, my final question is, my current wheels are badly hammerited disco steel wheels. I am intending on getting a wheel and tyre package for the 33's, and was intending to go for black modulars. But i've read that these have an offset that widens the track by up to 4 inches and can cause excessive tramlining on the road - will this combine with the 2" lift to make the truck drive like a dog as my mechanic suggests? Should i get some wolf wheels instead or whatever suitable width wheels i can find that don't stray too much from the stock track?

in summary, i'd like to bling and lift my truck on 33" tyres, crawl along muddy tracks in the morning, then sail down the autobahn at tickover in the afternoon. But i don't want it to be a pile of carp to drive. I know that is a cake and eat it situation but there has to be some sensible compromise? I trust my mechanic's experience but feel that he will only entertain solutions that involve branded landrover parts that were designed to go on the truck.

Can anyone help me find some clarity as i've got the 'net saying one thing, and mechanic contradicting it all as 'pub talk'?

The answer may be forget the tyres, put the new HD genuine suspension kit on it and fit an overdrive?

Actually - One more question, i've removed the viscous fan and ordered an electric fan kit - mechanic says send it back and put the viscous back on? but most of the time on travel blogs i seem to read about peoples viscous fan failures? (most recently sirocco overland i think)

cheers landrover folk :-)

Guy

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Keep the viscous. LR put it on there for a reason. Just make sure it's working properly. For a few quid just get a replacement Bearmach one like I did. Electric is more stuff to go wrong. Viscous is fit and forget. Take spare if you are worried.

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Guy.

Keep it simple...So simple that you use standard Land Rover parts. They are available in most places.

Suspension.

I have a 110 station wagon. It got well overloaded on a trip. Remember the vehicle GVW is 3.050 KG. I often went over that. Slow down for the bad bits.

I have yellow/ yellow springs on the front. Red/ green on the back with 130 helper springs fitted. There are newer dual rate springs but I've never tried them.

Don't think your mechanic is pub talk. A working viscous fan is good. It's the finding of a good working viscous fan that's the problem. Then they throw blades, sometimes through the radiator.

Fitting an electric fan means fitting it correctly. Five to eight mm from the matrix. Use a proper switch in the hose not one in the hose inlet.

I see you have a 200Tdi. They to me are the better engine. They run nice and cool.

Wheels. There's nowt wrong with Discovery steel wheels with 235/ 85 tyres on them, don't even think about lifting the truck. That could and will bring in other problems.

My ten bobs worth.

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Your mechanic is on the money. For an overland truck you should keep all the main mechanicals including the, wheels and tyres as standard as you can.

Fit Genuine Land Rover springs for peace of mind. Genuine springs have a very good reputation for longevity without sagging. NOT anything described as OE as these may or may not be as good. Do not fit an aftermarket lift kit as it will raise the centre of gravity and make handling worse. It will give you no offroad benefit on an overland truck and you will end up needing non standard length shocks which may be difficult to obtain if you need replacements.

For the same reason, do not fit 255 tyres as they are not readily available in all countries.

Best option would be Wolf steel wheels (6.5 inch wide) together with either 7.50 x 16 tyres or 235/85 x 16 tyres.

Stick with the standard 1.4 transferbox and keep the viscous fan. Take a spare if you are worried about it, or sort out a method of locking it if you need to.

Regards,

Diff.

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Thanks everyone, a nice clear route forward appearing here.

Can i just confirm then, will a new take-off genuine landrover factory HD suspension setup from an e.g. 2013 model 110 csw still fit my 1988 110 csw chassis,(including ARB's and steering damper?)

Should i stick with tubed tyres or tubeless? I see the advantages of tubes (or more accurately, carrying spare tubes!)

Any comments on overdrives? i can't majorly complain about mpg, i clocked 28mpg on a trip from wales to the isle of skye this winter (on the old knackered intercooler)

Cheers,

Guy

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Guy,

Std. Springs and shocks (I doubt you have the brackets for anti roll bars). The late shocks will require a little work to fit your earlier axles.

Viscous fan without a doubt

31" tubeless tyres and standard or Wolf steel rims (take a couple of tubes for emergencies)

Overdrive would be nice and better with 31" tyres but are very expensive to buy and you'll have to do a couple of round the world trips to get your money back.

HTH

Mo

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If you're driving a heavily-loaded vehicle at medium-to-high highway-speeds [60MPH+] the last thing you want is a suspension-lift - raising the vehicle's centre-of-gravity leads to instability and potential roll-over when you need to swerve to avoid any hazards. I actually advocate supension-lowering for fast-highway use [specially when towing].

Overdrives - the GKN-type have significant reliability/durability issues when faced with LR-style torque. A lot of people don't treat them well either - expecting a laden LR to pull in overdrive-5th at 50MPH is not good for the OD, the engine or the gearbox. Personally I don't rate overdrives on *any* Defender - the factory gearing's just fine. And if you're fitting oversized tyres and will be loading the beast truly the _last_ thing you want is higher gearing!

I like a vehicle which is geared to attain its maximum straight-line speed well past both the power- and torque-peaks: then when you hit an incline the vehicle slows and the engine moves back towards the power-peak thereby maintaining speed without the need to downshift. On an incline, once your engine drops below the peak-power RPM, downshift and keep the revs up. I was always taught when approaching an incline to select at the bottom the gear you'll be in at the top - so you go up the incline at near-constant speed and avoid any need to change gear during the climb. A typical 200/300TDi or TD5 Defender will happily do 60MPH in 3rd - which is great for romping up long highway inclines, even when you've got a 3-ton trailer on the back.

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Some good sound advice on the whole from previous posts,I would just add ,ditch 'Discovery 'wheels ASAP they are NOT rated for a vehicle of this weight/load potential.Wolf wheels best ,but check your studs they may need uprating to longer type.

Mick

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Some good sound advice on the whole from previous posts,I would just add ,ditch 'Discovery 'wheels ASAP they are NOT rated for a vehicle of this weight/load potential.Wolf wheels best ,but check your studs they may need uprating to longer type.

Mick

Yes they are. They have a heaver weight rating than Wolf/ 130. They have a thicker nave than the Wolf. I've used them for a long time without any problems.

Studs that have a "V" or chisel mark on the end are fine.

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Ok thanks, may change the wheels if the right wheel/tyre package comes along.

Coming back to ratios, I just went out in the truck and observed the following:

Got to 45 mph in 3rd, revving it's nuts off ( I don't have a tacho so not sure of revs but wayyy past where i would normally change even when attempting to 'boot it').

Got to 60mph in 4th, revving it's nuts off/ screaming to point it hurt my mechanical sympathy gland

On normal flattish roads in eg a 40 limit (so not trying to make major progress) I pickup 2nd at around 10 mph, 3rd at 20, 4th at 30 and I can realistically pick up 5th at 35mph and happily cruise long gentle ups and downs.

All speeds based on garmin gps, as funnily enough the speedo doesn't work (think its drive from the transfer box as the speedo unit responds to spinning of the transfer box end of the speedo cable)

I have an r380 box. Does the above sound correct for an r380 and standard defender 1.4 ratio transfer box?

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t

Thanks again, Tanuki can you confirm 60mph in 3rd?! Is that nearing the governor/ limit?

Mine's a standard 2001 TD5 Defender-90 running 750-16 tyres on factory-fit steel wheels. It'll happily hit 60 in 3rd - on twisty UK country roads 3rd's my most-used gear, specially when towing.

A 110 has a lower-ratio transfer box but you should still be able to do 50-55 in 3rd without any problems.

I always prefer to use small throttle-openings, a lowish gear and plenty of revs (so the both the engine and turbo are spinning freely) rather than driving like a Turkish taxi-driver and expecting an engine to pull from barely-idle RPM in a high gear with lots of throttle-opening. Lots of small ignitions produce less shock-loadings on the mechanics than a few big ones! It's also useful to fit an oil-pressure-gauge. I never use full-throttle until I'm seeing at least 45PSI (hot) on the gauge.

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Are you sure you have an R380 box - where is reverse?

Also have you checked you have a 1.44:1 T box

I think Tanuki's 60mph in 3rd is a bit odd - none of my 200Tdi/1.44:1/32" tyre combo's over the last 20 years have done 60 in 3rd. But a 200Tdi with a 1.22:1 will do 60mph in 3rd comfortably. But now he's explained why as he has a 1.22 T box!

Listen to the folk on this post so far for advise - it's all good. There's enough rubbish talked about overland prep on forums to feed all the rose beds in the Northern Hemisphere - also avoid the so called professional vehicle prep companies like the plague; most know nothing about the realities...

Go Red/Red on the rear - similar to Mike's Red/Green, but the Red/Red are the Driver's side, with Red/Green being the Passenger, so slightly shorter. I would use air bags rather than 130 springs. Alternatively the TD5 or TDCI progressive heavy duty OE springs are excellent. Yellow/Yellow on the front is spot on. But OE not Britpart. get spendy on the shock, something decent like Bilstiens but avoid the latest version of OME's like an STD. Dump the OE bushes and go SuperPro. Rather than go Polybush, go OE rubber. Use hand carved wood rather than Dflex or Flotech as wood will last longer (this is sarcasm)

Avoid 33" tyres - as mentioned before, they are almost impossible to get. Stick with 235/85x16's on Modulars. The Disco rims are excellent and are rated at 1660kgs per wheel (!) but you get a more stable ride with Modulars. Avoid spacers, simple because setting up bearings is a PITA. Avoid Wolf rims, unless you can buy a set cheap and then sell them on for a big profit - people pays loads for the 'Wolf' rim, generally get a set of 130 rims and would have been better getting Modulars.

Do not overload your vehicle. Work at a max of 80% of it's MAM/Gross weight - this gives you leeway

Your mechanic was right - he sounds like he has his head screwed on - listen to him

For free decent advice try www.offroadpreparation.com carp website, good people with a reputation for sorting out the mess created by those who should know better

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Right that explains a lot! In which case I reckon its a 1.4 ... Although I'm presuming that based on how it goes, how it's different to tanuki's and thats what it's supposed to have I guess. I must admit ive not attempted to identify it via number etc.

Yeah I think its an r380, reverse is bottom right.

Thanks for the link will take a look now.

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Also bear in mind that your gearing, if set up to suit an empty vehicle, will feel very different when you are fully loaded so err to the undergeared side of things when deciding gearing. Avoid a 1.2 transfer box, however temptingly economical that the 5th gear ratio seems as it raises the ratios on the other 4 gears too which you may then find are no longer placed where you need them. Land Rover did a good job of ratio selection particularly for the heavier vehicles in it's range.

HTH

Mo

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I agree wholeheartedly on the recommendation of Bilsteins: after 80,000 miles my original LR dampers were getting a bit tired and dropping a front wheel into a pothole at speed was becoming really-not-a-lot-of-fun. Finding a pothole with the inner-front-wheel of a fast curve was the most suspension-disturbing.

After a few steering-shimmy 'experiences' I decided that enough was enough and fitted a set of gas-pressurised Bilsteins and a Bilstein steering-damper. I can now go through a couple of bends on my daily commute at 60MPH when in the past I had to slow to 40.

To be brutally honest, a lot of the shock-absorbers sold to the 4x4/off-road world are cheap-and-nasty and maybe-even-dangerous Bling-Bling. I grew up in the 1980s/1990s speccing stuff for rally cars and if it didn't say Koni or Bilstein it didn't get fitted.

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Some really good advice on this thread, standard landrover stuff is really pretty good when it comes down to it. There's not much to choose between disco, wolf and earlier 130/rapier wheels apart from the discos are 7" vs 6 1/2" for the others.

Only very early 110's had a 1.6 ratio transfer box all later models (90/110/127/130 defenders etc) have a 1.4 unless it's been modded.

I believe you can buy the anti roll bar brackets to weld to your axles and or chassis if you wanted to add them.

I've never done any over landing or expedition ect but from driving cross country a lot I might suggest fitting some up rated steering bars as getting caught in a rut or hitting a big pothole can sometimes bend the standard items and cause untold hassle.

Will.

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I've got anti roll bars,or certainly on the rear. is that unusual for this age?

My 2001 90TD5 CSW doesn't have any anti-roll bars. It was ordered from the factory with 'heavy duty' suspension (because I wanted it as a big-trailer-hauler): I wonder if the anti-roll-bars were only factory-fitted to standard-duty-suspension versions?

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I've got anti roll bars,or certainly on the rear. is that unusual for this age?

Thank for the heads up on steering bars

My '89 110CSW has a rear anti roll bar, but no front one, on non station wagons I believe they were optional to order

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