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80-series axles onto RRC


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This is something I'm doing in the background in between other things so it's going to be pretty slow running (no comments please) but I've got some questions I want opinions on so I thought I would do a thread as I go along ;)

I mainly decided on these as I wanted reliability, I don't do bad out of the 10-spline axles but I have blown a back and a front diff on the same day which doesn't leave much time for driving :blush: The addition of locking diffs certainly doesn't detract from their appeal either ^_^

Someone pointed these out to me and being the savvy buyer I am I had a drink (I mean a think... a think... :blush: ) and bought them unseen without knowing a great deal about them. It seems I also don't know a great deal about UK geography as when the seller told me his location I though it was about 3 hours from me, turned out it was 6 :wacko: . They're off a manual so have the 3.88? diffs rather than the 4.11s which would've preferable, but 3.88 is still an improvement over what I have now. They also have 15" wheels which I'm told the first ones had which were replaced with 16" wheels when they went for bigger brakes... which would've been nice but then again it never goes over 15mph so it should be ok.

So the plan! I'm going to strip them, shot blast them and replace bearings and seals as appropriate. For mounting them I'm probably going to copy the stock land rover suspension, I know it would be a good opportunity to improve the suspension but what I have is good enough for what I do, it reduces the downtime of the car as it's just a nut and bolt job to swap from one axle to the other and it means I can transfer them to "any" other land rover vehicle easily if I ever want to. However I'm open to having my mind changed if anyone has good reason... I haven't looked at the props yet but that should be an easy enough job. The brakes are 4 pot single circuit at the front and 1 pot at the rear whereas the RRC is 2 circuit so I need to think about that. Theres a drum handbrake at the back which I will probably keep. I'll cobble something up for the steering. For the diff locks I want to dump the electric actuators, I was thinking of going for pneumatic actuation although DirtyDiesel suggested bowden cables which I like as it isn't dependent on my air system working... but I also like the pneumatic hiss... :rofl: Either way thats not todays decision...

So, this is what I've ended up with, I've pulled the tyres off the wheels and stuck them up for auction just to get rid. My plan was to take them home but after the fight to get them into the van I figured I'd take them to work and unload by forklift. :ph34r: They've definately been on a car that lived by the sea but they seem solid enough in the right places.

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So, first problem... fortunately Istruggle2gate11 gave me enough information to strip and rebuild them, however to get the rear halfshafts out it says tap the middle of the flange with a piece of brass and the cone washers will pop out. Well I tapped them with a bit of brass, which progressed to a brass hammer, then a steel hammer, then a mr angry special lump hammer and still no joy. I've soaked them for a few days in penetrating oil, I've had a mole grips on, tried turning them with a punch and I've had a blow lap on them with no joy. Think I'm going to have to borrow an oxyacetylene torch to see if that can do it unless anyone has any other ideas?

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On 105 fronts (almost the same as 80's) I use a copper drift on the end of the studs, it's never failed yet, sometimes takes a fair whack tho. I watched a local mechanic in Cartagena pop the collets by striking the drive flange outer edge in line with the studs, it deforms the hole and forces the collet out. I wasn't very impressed with the flat spots on the drive flange afterward so I don't recommend it, but it was 38degrees in the shade and my Spanish isn't good enough to tell him how else to do it

Oh and good choice, I've never seen a failure despite running at twice the design weight on carp roads, we once had a rear axle which was bent laterally so the wheelbase was 60mm shorter on one side and you couldn't tell, diff and shafts were mint. Had another where the bolt on steering arm had sheared the four studs into the hub, someone had replaced them with two m10 bolts and carried on, the track rod was swinging in such a vertical arc it was wearing flat spots on the diff housing

Bear in mind all the fixings are 1.25mm pitch not standard pitches. I still have a selection of fixings if you need anything

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Thanks for the advice I will give it a try. Roger is still off roading, he's trialling in an 80 series as all sensible people do and still better at it than I am. Last time I saw him at Korc he bust 2 cvs although I think dan and roger have a plan... ;)

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Sometimes the flanges require a bit of a smack with a hammer to loosen the conical washers - mine did, with a club hammer!

If I were you, I would abandon the drum handbrake in the rear axle - the design is terrible and most of the internals have probably turned to rust anyway. The service brakes, even on the 15" axles are superb - you won't have any problems stopping with them.

If the electric actuators on the difflocks work - keep them! I had to replace the front with Pneumatic as it was broken (physically broken off the axle) - and though I expected to have to do similar on the back, it has kept working. I like the idea of a control cable though - you know where you stand with a cable!

If you do keep the electric actuators - this is how to wire them up:

http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/43359-Simplified-FJ80-Difflock-Wiring-Diagram

Lastly, I would stick with standard LR mounts. At least then it's easy to swap vehicles and you'll have easy spares availability (bushes etc) without having to remember what you used. The ball joint taper is different to LR, but it's easy to grind a drill bit to the same taper as LR and drill out the holes to take LR Joints. Nick Watts (Delta-Tek) has such a drill bit - which he might loan you?

Great choice of axle by the way! (I am biased) The weakest part is the CV joints - though they are much tougher than most LR ones. If you want to bullet-proof them, order Longfield CV's from the US. If however, you are running small-ish tyres, they will probably not be a problem.

Si

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Looks like I need to be more violent with the axle then :)

The rear diff lock actuator is missing so I have to do something with that so I will do the front too so that I don't have two different systems.

Getting rid of the handbrake would make things simpler and I guess I don't really need it.

The current Setup is a v8 auto and 31" special tracks so I can't see them breaking too often.

Cheers for the info simon.

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Looks like I need to be more violent with the axle then :)

The rear diff lock actuator is missing so I have to do something with that so I will do the front too so that I don't have two different systems.

Getting rid of the handbrake would make things simpler and I guess I don't really need it.

The current Setup is a v8 auto and 31" special tracks so I can't see them breaking too often.

Cheers for the info simon.

The 80 series rear diff lock is the same as the earlier models which are mechanically operated, all the holes are there in the diff for the linkage.

The front would be quite a bit more involved Al, as half the diff lock mechanism is cast as part of the diff.

For you application Al i'd be locking the back solid and wiring the front in, as you will more than likely spend 90% of your time with the rear locked. if everything is in good order the front diff lock is super quick to engage and disengage,

I also would really not be reusing the land rover front suspension Al, just make a H/D gearbox crossmember and a 1 link that bolts into your rangy chassis you will thank me for it ;)

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Interesting thoughts there dan, 2 against 1 says keep the e locker so I will check it works when I get the diff off and take it from there! Probably go pneumatic on the back, possibly sprung to disengage if air is lost if its easy else as you say, it wouldn't be the end of the world if it got stuck in.

Hmmm... One link. I will have to do a bit of reading around that, can't say I know enough to make one at the moment! :)

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Well I really did not like doing it but Lewis' Spanish friends technique got the washers out in the end! The jacking holes were a bit messy so I ran a tap down them as far as I could then ground the end diameter of a 10.2 M8 screw down so that it would clear any rubbish left at the bottom. They fought, although that was probably as I didn't realise they were doweled, but I love how when you actually get inside something like this it's like new on the inside despite being scruffy on the outside!

I've only had a quick read around but a 1-link seems too simple assuming it goes around all the dangly bits under the car. I think getting a decent joint will be the key to reliability. I think that's the next area of research :)

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I also would really not be reusing the land rover front suspension Al, just make a H/D gearbox crossmember and a 1 link that bolts into your rangy chassis you will thank me for it ;)

I have to agree, a one-link would be a good choice, you could make it so it bolts on the original radius mounts so you could replace the axle if needed.

I'm going to assume the RRC is a V8? If so there might be a bit of clearance issues IF your down pipes go over the cross member with cats, can be a little tight!

Is the rear a parallel 4 link with panard, rather than A frame? I'd keep that if your after some good flex, as the ball joint in the A frame can be restrictive!

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Apologies Lewis, engage brain!

The rear has the standard A-frame and to be honest the bodywork is my limiting factor. For what I use it for I could just hack it but I like to keep it looking something like a range rover. I'm not keen on a body lift so at some point will look into raising the arches like I did on my SJ, but I try to keep it to one job at a time. I was going to put a link of the current setup but it won't let me paste the url to the image?

It is a V8, no cat, I guess I won't really know about clearance until I start.

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There are a lot more 80 series Toyotas here in OZ, and the offroad conditions are probably harsher overall. The front differential is significantly smaller and weaker than the earlier 60 series etc, and having reverse cut crownwheel and pinion teeth, they have been known to break when reversing up steep hills, out of ditches or when in reverse gear, snatch recovering other stuck vehicles. This issue apparently doesn't crop up often in the UK, from judging Dan and Si's recommendations. That said they are probably still stronger than a Rover diff, although the Rover front CW&P is stronger when backing up than when driving forward.

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There is a small thread on Devon about R&P failure on front 80 Series: http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=5&id=149322&Itemid=106

But comparing their tyre sizes with yours I would say your probably quite safe :) I have no personal experience with 80 Series axles though. I'm an Anglofile to the extreme almost so the only other 4x4s I have experience from is Jeep and Unimog

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The cv's are the first weak link Al, I broke 3 cv's in about 20 events on 37x13 boggers.

As long as the diff bearings are in good order the chances you will break one I'd say are slim to none.

A good upgrade for the front r&p is to change the pinion crush sleeve with a solid spacer and shims.

A 1 link Al is well within your capabilities, if you want give me a call :-)

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Cheers all. How do you change the crush sleeve for a solid spacer, set it up correctly with a crush sleeve, strip it down then measure it to make one?

Dan, you'll regret making that offer! I will drill you for info next time I see you, I'm a fair way off that stage to be fair!

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For some reason I can only paste links to photos from Chrome, not IE or Safari. Technology! :wacko:

Anyway, got the rest of the rear axle stripped, managed to snap a stud off when getting the half shaft out so need to get one of those and replace it, anyone know a source? If not I will make one :glare:

I assumed the missing difflock actuator had been sold by the person that broke the car but it had obviously failed in service and the owner had 'fixed' it :D

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I love how simply the locker is though, should be easy to come up with an alternative actuator :)

Anyway, I stuck everything through the parts washer quickly just so I could wash the grease away and see what stuff is, I'll do it again before assembly just to make sure everything is clean. The bearings, seals and oil all seemed pretty good so I will probably reuse them, its not like its the hardest part to change later should I have to! I will keep my eye on the seals as some rubbers react with the fluid in the parts washer and swell. Doesn't do a bad job to say it just splashes a bit of fluid around :)

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I haven't looked what grease is supposed to be in the hub but it was full of this red, jelly like stuff as well as a black grease :huh:

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Apart from that all I've done is scraped the paper gasket off, and split they tyres from the wheels and sold them on so that should give me a budget for some steel wheels. I've seen some 16x7 modular that I like so I will get those if I don't happen across something else.

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I like it. It has a shower from the top, a hand spray and an airline. It had paraffin in it originally but it had gone more like crude oil in the tank so I cleaned it out and put rock oil soluble oil cleaner in it. It came in 25 litre drums.

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Always a good project, 80 series axles into a RRC!

Some things from my experience in addition to what's already been discussed,

I seem to remember that stock rover hockey stick radius arms fouled the tie bar on the LC axle, hence why I went for a front 3 link suspension. 1 link is probably the easiest to engineer a good strong system on an off road only vehicle.

I fitted all LR type brackets on the rear axle, which went on very easy

I ditched the hand brake drums completely, despite considering them for fiddle brakes. Brakes I just plumbed in with long flexies made up with the correct LC banjo fittings on the calliper ends.

Toyota still sell everything you need for these axles (or did 4 years ago). A new locker actuator was about £750 though!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Might be some inspiration for a simple manual locker fix ( if it's uploaded off my phone right).

Simple plate with a phosphirbronze bush down the centre, an oil seal either side of this then the simple rod/Clevis pin/lever combination to push and pull it locked/unlocked. Still got to add a cable to the cab yet as climbing under it to lock it in the mud isn't fun.

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