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8 point DVLA radically altered vehicle query


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first of all... Sorry,

i am looking for a particular piece of clarification, preferably a reliable source.

would a change in road spring (i.e. parabolic spring on a series, or HD/lifted coil spring on a coiler) act as a modified suspension system and therefore remove the 2 points?

Cheers all.

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I read a little bit into this for when I was building my 110.

If you convert leafs to coils, you're altering the chassis and axles by adding brackets, tabs and various other bits to allow the fitment of the radius arms etc. that's altering the chassis/suspension system.

Fitting HD coils to a coiler or parabolics to a leafer is a modification but you're not actually straying away from the original land Rover design.

So you would keep your points and retain its original I.d.

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As far as I can make out it comes under a like for like replacement part even if you change the rate. Different vehicles had different springs even on the same model so they would be hard pushed to prove they weren't original (except parabolic as they are noticeably different not that it matters in this instance).

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copied from ---- https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles

Keep the original registration number

Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number.

5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.

Part Points Chassis,

monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5 Suspension (front and back) - original 2

Axles (both) - original 2

Transmission - original 2

Steering assembly - original 2

Engine - original 1

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Like for like is deemed to be "Running Repairs"

ie - if its a leaf sprung LR, it would have originally been fitted genuine springs, a running repair is changing these for replacements of the same TYPE but not ness genuine, so any leaf spring replacing whats on there is ok as a "Running repair".

BUT

If you change from a lef to a coil then thats a modification of the type fitted so points lost.

Same with Coils, genuine to Old man Emu is NOT a mod, but change it to say Air bags and yup thats a change of type

Nige

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I wrote to dvla about this when rebuilding mine - amongst other things they were clear that to retain the two points (or major component status ) both front and rear springs and dampers had to be the original items or to original specification.

I was happy enough with the springs and rates but I wanted to use my Bilstien dampers... they said no.

I made my own decision about how to deal with that.

YMMV

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It doesn't pay to ask any of the agencies anything , as you will get almost as many answers as people answering , because most are not that well up on it , other than the ones doing the actual inspections , the suits etc in the office are generally a few years etc out of touch . eg the bilstien shock answer above. If it had been a mod to say lever arm shocks then that would not be original design type. Re axles , they dont have to be the actual axles supplied on the vehicle (they have serial number) but if solid axle must be solid axle , not modded to swinging arm for example.HTSH

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is all rather ridiculous and farcical. If you take these new rules "as read" it means that you cannot change anything at all.

So if, for instance, you have welded on some alternative engine mounts, or just a bracket for an exhaust, then you have modified the chassis and therefore must have the vehicle crushed or Q plated.

If you have a Richards or Designa chassis........i.e. four plates welded at the corners to form the chassis rails, then this is NOT the original type or specification, so therefore also should fall foul of the rules.

All of which makes most of you dirty rotten crims. Except me of course

Sadly it would appear that its all down to how an inspecting "officer" interprets those rules on the day, and that is dangerous territory, when it appears that the rules are so ambiguous. There should be NO grey areas

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When I did my restoration, I was relatively tight on points. I made a query to several individuals in DVLA on the springs, not trusting just one opinion, and all stated that springs, even leaf springs, constitute a service replaceable part, so even though leaf springs form the entire suspension and location system, they can be swapped while retaining their points, and that went for fitting parabolic replacements too. It's only going from leafs to coils or air, or changing to very different springs of different length (like Koos' front spring mod) that would cause issues to UK registered vehicles. So, very flexible (see what I did there? ;)).

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DVLA write & say one version although different depending on who you speak to at dvla, then VOSA or whatever there called now tell you something different again, so how are we mere mortals to know which is correct.

prior to my galv chassis change, the local area VRO office, hadn't got a clue what was required, [now all closed down] & after speaking to one of the VOSA team at regional station he said it's a like for like change no need to do anything,

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ah ok thankyou.

DVLA say

Get an age-related registration number

You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with:

  • a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer
  • an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle

The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles

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This is all rather ridiculous and farcical. If you take these new rules "as read" it means that you cannot change anything at all.

So if, for instance, you have welded on some alternative engine mounts, or just a bracket for an exhaust, then you have modified the chassis and therefore must have the vehicle crushed or Q plated.

If you have a Richards or Designa chassis........i.e. four plates welded at the corners to form the chassis rails, then this is NOT the original type or specification, so therefore also should fall foul of the rules.

All of which makes most of you dirty rotten crims. Except me of course

Sadly it would appear that its all down to how an inspecting "officer" interprets those rules on the day, and that is dangerous territory, when it appears that the rules are so ambiguous. There should be NO grey areas

I agree and have thus far never found anything substantial on line. The main issue is, there is no definition of any of the parts or what they mean.

Take the engine for example. Which bit would you need to keep?

If you had say a 3.5 RV8. Would swapping the heads and/or intake manifold constitute a different engine?

How about retain the heads/intake and fitting a new block?

Or what happens if you keep just the block, but add in a stroker crank to 4.3 litres, new heads/intake and everything else. Is if really the same engine still?

And it's the same for every item they list. Some gov sites say "any" welding to the chassis automaticaly requires inspection. So fitting a weld in rollcage to anything would trigger this. And of course, if you weld on a new rear cross member, or even plate a hole, this would appear to be covered by this, on face value.

The most comprehensive answer I've seen online is a simple statement "only VOSA/DVLA can tell you if it needs inspecting or not". Thing is, I've never found out how you get to the point of being able to ask this, without taking it for an inspection.

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on another note, can you fit a private plate to a Q plated vehicle? (normal private plate age rules permitting)

 

No. A friend wanted to do this on his "Assembled from parts not all of which are new" Marcos kit-car.

DVLA said "Niet".

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on another note, can you fit a private plate to a Q plated vehicle? (normal private plate age rules permitting)

Q plated vehicles cannot be re-registered onto any other reg number, they are stuck with the Q reg plate allocated, BUT if you have documentary evidence it might be possible to change from a Q reg

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/q-registration-numbers

http://www.plates4less.co.uk/plates/search_Q-DVLA-prefix.asp

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I agree and have thus far never found anything substantial on line. The main issue is, there is no definition of any of the parts or what they mean.

Take the engine for example. Which bit would you need to keep?

If you had say a 3.5 RV8. Would swapping the heads and/or intake manifold constitute a different engine?

How about retain the heads/intake and fitting a new block?

Or what happens if you keep just the block, but add in a stroker crank to 4.3 litres, new heads/intake and everything else. Is if really the same engine still?

And it's the same for every item they list. Some gov sites say "any" welding to the chassis automaticaly requires inspection. So fitting a weld in rollcage to anything would trigger this. And of course, if you weld on a new rear cross member, or even plate a hole, this would appear to be covered by this, on face value.

The most comprehensive answer I've seen online is a simple statement "only VOSA/DVLA can tell you if it needs inspecting or not". Thing is, I've never found out how you get to the point of being able to ask this, without taking it for an inspection.

Engines are identified by the number, which is usually on the block. newer engines have numbers on heads etc.

ah ok thankyou.

DVLA say

Get an age-related registration number

You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with:

  • a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer
  • an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle

The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles

So under kit car rules the original chassis can be altered.

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Even so it much better than a Q plate for an original looking motor. It means a recreation could if using the right parts look the job.

I know that people who have made their motors legal through IVA wear their Q pllates as a badge of honesty with pride and I admire them for that, just don't like them on a chop or old looking vehicle/custom car.

Marc

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