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Waterproofing A V8


Jon White

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Ok - so short of fitting a diesel what can I do to improve the waterproofing on my V8? One sniff of a puddle and it dies!

So far I've removed the dizzy, drilled a hole in the dizzy cap and attached a tube to connect it to the air pump off my fish tank. I then dunked the dizzy in the sink and sealed all the holes up where air was bubbling out. I completely sealed it so that there were no bubbles coming out at all!

I then re-fitted it, and attached two breathers via tubes drilled into the dizzy cap. One tube runs into the cab and the other attaches to the manifold vaccuum so that there is constantly dry air going through it.

Fitted new plug leads and gave it all a good spray of ignition sealer.

Its alot better than it was but it still dies if i drive through a deep puddle! At least now i never need to remove the dizzy cap to dry it out, and it usually re-starts pretty easily after I've given the dizzy a good dousing of Wd40.

Any ideas then? Only other thing I could think of was to try and shield the dizzy somehow. Easiest way I could think of was to cut the corners out of a thick plastic bag, feed the plug leads through them and then zip tie the corners up round the leads, and zip tie the bag round the base of the dizzy. I've tried a lemonade bottle etc but it just doesnt seem to do the job.

What have you done?

Thanks

Jon

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There's a sealer we use in the aircraft industry called PRC, also called gorilla snot by those on the hanger floor, seals fuel tanks and anything that you don't want a liquid getting past, not sure of the part number at present but if you could get it privately that would stop any fluids getting in

Sea King helicopters also around the engine bay electrics use ordinary silicon grease shufted into and around the connectors, never seen any corrosion problems or other failings on these connectors due to this process

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Interesting on sealing the dizzy cap - what about servicing ?

Is silicon grease a better idea than ignition sealer ?

Where is your coil ? and what have you done to that ?

Rubber style gloves with 9 fingers, and a similar bit for the coil are for sale by some people at shows.

Manual fan helps, but ISTR you've done that already.

Is it steam from the zorst thats causing the problems ?

What have I done ? - mounted the engine nice and high at the back of MogLite !! Thats pretty extreme though :lol:

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My truck does so few miles its no hassle to re-seal the dizzy cap for serviceing - once a year basically.

The coils right up on the bulkhead in standard series position. Given a good dousing in ignition sealer. Its the same coil i had with the 2.25 in it, and the 2.25 would run underwater (with my backside in the drivers seat getting wet) so i dont suspect the coil is the problem!

It usually re-starts pretty easily, often without Wd40 even!

Manual fan yes, but i've also got a flexi fan on the water pump so that doesnt help!

the plastic bag idea was the poor mans 9 fingered glove - I've tried everywhere but the local tescos only sells the 5 fingered variety..........guess we're not inbred enough round my way - I'll have to try the ASDA down in Leigh Park!

Jon

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Once upon a time somebody - I think it may have been John Craddock - used to advertise a completely waterproof V8 ignition setup. I seem to remember it was some sort of double insulated leads and a special dizzy cap. I also seem to remember it was about £300! - not sure if it worked but might be worth some enquiries if you are willing to spend that sort of money on solving the problem.

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Yes - i beleive this was the 24 volt stuff as fitted to some 101's.

As you say though - silly money, and needed a special coil, special plugs and the dizzy obviously. I aslo seem to recall all the service bits were silly money like plugs at ~£25 off quid each etc!

Anyone know any different? Was a 12 volt version available?

Jon

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1, Fit a Diesel

2, Go to your nearest electrical wholesalers (not B&Q, Homebase etc) and get some MI Cable shrouds, cut the sealed end off a tight fit for your HT cable, remove the exsisting rubber boot, slide the shroud up the lead refit the rubber, fit the lead, and slide the shroud down over the rubber and you will find it will be a nice tight fit over the spark plug.well sealed you can even jet wash it without it misfiring

3, Move the ingnition coil etc into the truck

4, Use a decent electronic ign

5, Use electric fans and switch off when wading

6, Silicon grease around the dizzy cap

7, Fit a splash guard, I used 5 litre spring water bottle

8, See Item 1 :lol:

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Stick with what Land Rover spent millions designing

Fit Gen part cap, leads,plugs and rotory arm, all these super twin spark stuff is a waste of time as the engine is designed to run champion plugs that is what makes it run best.

with a tiny bit of any old grease around the cap and in the top.

PUT THE COIL IN A SEALED BOX (on the hot wire system) big enough to not get too hot.

Tonk has vidio proof of my 90 with the engine under water running on all eight no problems and climbing out of a water hole being winched but still powering.

I still run the fan don't bother with electric fans at they will fail or you will forget to turn them back on and the engine will die. I've seen it too many times

They still fit viscos fans to new cars and they do it for a reson

Jules

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I agree with Jules,

Fit original Land Rover Cap and Rotor arm, and original or Magnecore leads.

Sealant wise, I give it a spray with ignition sealant every 6 months or so.

Make sure your leads are routed so they are not touching anything that is metal.(especially your king lead).

mine never ever miss fires even with water washing over the bonnet. I have even let it tickover and jetwashed the engine including around the dizzy, still no miss fire.

Phil

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Thanks Chaps - making sure the leads dont touch anything metal is one I hadn't thought of - I'm pretty sure the king lead touches lots of things - I'll check it out!

I put decent Bosch leads on it - are the genuine leads any different - my king lead is longer than standard anyway so i cant change that one. Magnecore leads are tooooooo much money!

Jon

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Thanks Chaps - making sure the leads dont touch anything metal is one I hadn't thought of - I'm pretty sure the king lead touches lots of things - I'll check it out!

I put decent Bosch leads on it - are the genuine leads any different - my king lead is longer than standard anyway so i cant change that one. Magnecore leads are tooooooo much money!

Jon

Lucus is gen but Bosch a similer quality

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Thanks Chaps - making sure the leads dont touch anything metal is one I hadn't thought of - I'm pretty sure the king lead touches lots of things - I'll check it out!

I put decent Bosch leads on it - are the genuine leads any different - my king lead is longer than standard anyway so i cant change that one. Magnecore leads are tooooooo much money!

Jon

Lucus is gen but Bosch a similer quality

Here is a vid of Julians 90 V8 working fine in water

drowned V8

And this was standard V8 with Lucas bits

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I've had a very succesful "budget" version, dont laugh:

Hose pipe over the leads!! It works a treat.

Re the dizzy, I bought a 9 fingered glove type thing off ebay, for about £14, I beleive TuffToys in Melton Mowbray sell them now, this also works very well.

Finaly, I just put a piece of plastic curtain loosley around the dizzy to stop silly amounts of water.

I too can sit at water on dizzy height using this method.

Rog

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What Ali and Jules said.

Geniune cap

Genuine leads or Magnecor if you've got the money

Cover the coil with something

Make sure the HT leads are seprated, you can do it easily with a bit of cunning cable-tie weaving, or proper HT lead separators.

If you're still running points, get out of the dark ages and fit electronc ignition, preferably magnetically triggered Aldon (Ignitor-II) or Lumenition (Magnetronic) NOT the cr*p LR produce. That will let you run a bigger coil, which gives a stronger spark, which is less affected by water.

My dad has bungeed ice-cream tubs over the ignition amp / coil and dizzy on the RR and that stays running in water much better than you would believe. Still coughs on occasion but not bad for 5 minutes work.

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That was when you had just got the 8274 and you wanted to try it out that was the only reson I went in so you could winch me out.

That was best part of three years ago wasn't it.

I will admitt the old 3.5 efi was better in water than the current 4.2 is I didn't do anything to the 3.5 just gen parts and Lucus leads hardly brake the bank. Its like I always use gen oil filters there only £10 ish what the point in having pattern part you only do it once every six months.

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So does electronic ignition really make that much difference? I like the points from the point of view that i can fix them in the middle of a muddy puddle - if the electronics pack up I'm stuffed!

Is the aldon unit really any better than just swapping the dizzy for one of the later range rover electronic ones?

Also how do i tell if the dizzy cap thats on it is genuine or not?

Thanks

Jon

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So does electronic ignition really make that much difference? I like the points from the point of view that i can fix them in the middle of a muddy puddle - if the electronics pack up I'm stuffed!

Is the aldon unit really any better than just swapping the dizzy for one of the later range rover electronic ones?

Also how do i tell if the dizzy cap thats on it is genuine or not?

Thanks

Jon

Jon,

i've used aldon ign on mini's, they just dont go wrong, not susceptable to moisture either, buy one, u wont be sorry.

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Jon,

Genuine Classic RR leads together with Genuine Lucas Cap & rotor arm is all that’s needed ;) . If your king lead (very American) is non standard then go for a good quality silicon lead (mines about 3 feet long ….£3). During the winter months the 90 often goes bonnet deep without too many problems. I usually give the dizzy a spray of WD40 before we go swimming and I have always surfaced OK :lol: .

Having said that, I still believe deep wading is not much good for the vehicle……….water ingress causes long term damage unless you are prepared to undertake a lot of extra maintenance.

What’s wrong with electronic ignition? It’s simple, reliable and very effective. On the early EFI’s a hall sensor in the dizzy sends a small pulse to the ignition amp to be amplified and sent to the coil as a large voltage on / off pulse. Points on an eight cylinder engine are a nightmare as any wear on the dizzy shaft and points cam have a disastrous effect on the dwell angle and this gives variations in the timing :angry: .

Funnily enough, late one evening last week I was out shooting and the 90 cut out on the top of a steep slope. We were about six miles from the nearest road. I knew it was ignition related as the cut out was clean, unlike fuel related faults where there is a bit of cough and splutter. It took me a couple of minutes to diagnose the fault and 10 minutes to fix it by changing the ignition amp. All this was done by torch light. I bet it would take you longer to change and adjust the points, together with resetting the timing. I always carry a spare cap, rotor arm, ignition Amp (cheap £31), coil, EFI fuel pump, water temp sensor, and a standard Lucas relay (all the EFI relays are the same).

That’s the first time the electronic ignition has ever let me down ……. the last time I broke down I was out with Tony (White 90) and the fuel pump refused to run after we had stopped for lunch. That was due to a faulty sealed fuse holder :rolleyes: .

Ian

90 V8EFI TruckCab

Torque wins races ……. BHP sells cars……….and there’s no substitute for cubic inches.

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  • 7 months later...

Nigels post copied:

I first do have to say a few BIG "thankyous" :

Jon White _ wiring and soldering eggspurt :D

Mr Fridge - for bleating and making me go this route at all :P

Bull Bar CowBoy (Ian G) for operating his "Samaritains Help Line" and general helpful knowledge :)

SWMBO for putting up with paper diagrams and oiley bits everywhere in the kitchen :huh:

Bill Shurvington - For some of the parts and general help........................ :)

The problem for me and for many other V8s is that V8s do not like water :

gallery_22_5_85685.jpg

So for a number of months the hunt was on........

1st I toyed with making myy own dizzy with an outer sealed casing - got so far and scrapped that,

then a SAS ex 110 RF cover system, bought but still not good enough,

and after many many routes, INC research into Buick Dizzy (now with R Vogue on this toy :P,

and DUI dizzys along with the HEIs, ......

none of which is really water proof - more water resistant ..............I decided on one route

MEGAJOLT EDIS 8 V8

There was a final and impelling reason for me to fianlly choose this route -

namely that the 4.5 Eales V8 has NO VACUMN just a set at 30 degrees at 4000 rpm and job done.

This makes for a very lumpy tickover as the advance is around 16 degrees - far too much, with MEGAJOLT I also have the option of a 10x10 ignition MAP thereby re-using the vacumn, and being able to reset the ignition at whatever it SHOULD be at 10 x RPM buckets along with 10x Vacumn settings :

So, 1st job was to read read read print read and learn :

The MEGAJOLT Site :

http://picasso.org/mjlj/?q=

Here I learnt as best I could (and with help from Fridge and Jon W) decided to go this route, I have gone this route also as the EFI system is tunable for me, and megasquirt is even more complex, my problem was not carbs / EFI mine was Water and a V8 not mixing :P

You will need.

Trigger wheel 36:1 and gap

EDIS 8 Unit

Megajolt ECU

2x Ford Mondeo or other 4 cylinder coil packs

Make up new (longer leads)

Vacumn pipe

VR sensor and plug (ford)

Beer

mate to do wiring (hello Jon :P )

Mate to cry down the phone to (Hello Fridge)

Beer

Asprin

time

More Beer

A PC running XP serial port so you can connect to the ECU to play with the Ignition MAP

This system also has the attraction, that if it fails, it has a 10 degrees set advance "Limp Home Mode",

or if I reconnect 1 wire to the coil, place a rotor arm and the old dizzy cap and leads back on I still have the old system as a back up unit.

EDIS 8s are not available from the UK, they come off Lincoln V8 town cars, I have bought a few from E-Bay USA, this is not the same as UK and adding "Worldwide" as an option - so go and look here :

http://www.motors.ebay.com/

Trigger words are EDIS8 EDIS 8 Lincoln Ignition Module etc, pay about £25-£30 for EDIS and the plug with wires (you cannot get this plug new or elsewhere !) EDIS 8 on its own even cheaper (my spare)

The trigger wheel I 1st bought a "should do basic model" much machining later it was no good too big.

Ended up making my own, got it slighly wrong (5mm OD too small) but with a spacer ring to move it back it allowed me to have the sensore almost behind the pulley :

gallery_22_5_18416.jpg

gallery_22_5_2866.jpg

The bracket with the sensor has up/down movement and in out movement,

as the VR sensor has to be set at 10 degrees adavnce and around .5 - 1.5mm from wheel,

................nothing 10 hours on a lathe can't sort, ...........oh for a CNC punch.... :(

The EDIS8, shown here wired up and connected, these are arraently also waterpoof, but I have mounted mine high up to be super safe, if this gets under water, then thats the least of my probs !

gallery_22_5_28960.jpg

below are the pics of the FORD coil packs mounted on the rover cover,

.....................I did spend ages deciding where to fit these :

gallery_22_5_106070.jpg

and here with the leads made and fitted -

I will prob remake new leads later, these were a "Quick Job" to see if all worked - these are done by buying cheap long leads, chopping off the coil end, (or dizzy end) then "Undoing" a FORD end (scrappy for loads and loads of leads - some break - some do come apart) then recrimping the ends back on to the new leads, the coil packs are an exellent fit betweem lead and coil,m best waterprrof connector I have vever seen :

gallery_22_5_49168.jpg

gallery_22_5_83463.jpg

And finally the megajolt ECU shoved temporilary loosely in the cubby box :

gallery_22_5_42416.jpg

Getting it all running was a bit of a pain, had to use the bit of a bodge method which has been outlinned by Mr Fridge and geoff B, but it worked, I am pursuing "A better Bodge" and will advise....

When it was all sorted I had a annoying Hic-cupy type misfire, this was fuelling, now I have such a good spark it burning weak - so a good hard tweak of the "More Fuel" on the adjuster on the ECU now sees it run very smoothly (better than before by miles) yet with a 10x10 "Guesstimeated IGN MAP".

next steps are :

1. Finish the snorkel FFS :lol: and quickly !

2. Me, my wallet, Mark Adams, my 90 and a certain 4wd Rolling road :) ..... for real time tweaking

Yes, its a lot of work, yes you have to do a lot of research, but I for one am chuffed to bits and am looking forward to a V8 that doesn't misfire near in or under water B)

Thanks to all again who have helped, much appreacited !, oh and lastly these pics are in LR4x4.com gallery - I lost ALL my pics due to an error on Photobucket.com :angry:

Nige

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