I'm building a Range Rover hybrid, 2WD/4WD, FWH Nissan 4.2 Diesel

[willfromsussex]

Just thought i'd post a pic of my Range Rover hybrid project that I have started on.

I want a reliable economical old Range Rover. I like Range Rover body design , but I like Nissan Patrols for driving, torque, reliablity and economy. So I am having to build a 'best of both' vehicle. The Rangerover will have the Nissans features including the factory rear air locker diff.

Patrol engine,box,transfer is sitting in there and temporarily mounted. 4.2 Straight six diesel engine is not easy to get into a Range Rover. I will have to move the engine about a bit to find the best location.

Patrol rear axle is mounted and is required for the conversion as the diff is in the middle instead of off to one side. It will be driven at gearbox output speed rather than through a reduction chain. The chain in the transfer case only starts moving when the box is put in 4WD.

The front axle is in place but not mounted yet.

The Patrol front arms conveniently are the same length and spacing apart to plug straight into the RR chassis, and the axle sits centred in the arch.

Sticks out further than standard.

Need to make front spring platforms, shock mounts and make a panhard rod . Steering looks like it might connect up UK. Diff (being larger than Range Rover diff) is very close to the bottom of the steering box shaft , going to have to run vehicle with fairly high ride height as I can't see an easy way around that clearance problem.

Sump currently interferes with the long steering trackrod that connects the lef and right wheels together . Moving engine further back will hopefully solve that little one. I really didn't want to cut the bulkhead as I was trying to keep the shell completely unmolested but it's looking like I might have to.

[ChrisV8]

Interesting project, one of mine has a 2.8 Patrol tdi in it, superb engines.

Do you realise you may be eligible for an SVA test on this as it no longer has the original running gear ? \might be worth discussing with VOSA and DVLA before you put it back on the road, there have been lots of trhreads running about changes to the rules recently applied to hybrids and changed vehicles.

[jules]

Cool

there is some info on some of the guys from Aus doing the axle conversions and also some quit detailed posts from some time ago.

Read90 has more details on it.

A range rover that can do proper donuts cooooooool

[willfromsussex]

Thanks. If anyone has any links that would be most interesting.

[jules]

more stuff

[willfromsussex]

thanks, but I'm using both Patrol axles, that article seemed to just be about ratio mismatches when mixing 2 brands of axles.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Hi Will.

I am also in the process (vapour at the mo though!) of sticking a set of patrol axles under my Disco. Also coil sprung like yours with factory rear vacuum locker and (I hope) 4.11 ration R&Ps. Will be mucho interested in how you get on. The Nissan hockey sticks are about a 1cm closer together than the LR ones. You recon that will be an issue? The spring seats are identical position though so i thought I would make up some upper brackets and have the shocks outside the springs to make servicing easier. I am not planning on running the nissan transfer box so am going to have to get some trick propshaft made up for the rear to minimise vibration.

One other problem I am seeing is that the calipers on the nissan have only one brake line to them (whereas the disco has 2) and the nissan is split front rear rather than diagonal. Am not sure how this might play out with the valving of the master cylinder. Have you any ideas on this?

Keep us informed

mark

[jules]

Sorry I was struggling to find the detailed thread fron this forum about that trucks build.

I asked Ali about it and he will fill in the details as he has looked at it in much more detail than me.

[callum]

nice project should be best of both worlds when finished.

i've heard that the td42 is quite difficult to squeeze into a rover. i'm not sure why it was, but by the sounds of it, its quite a tall engine.

if you're using the patrol gearbox, that should prevent issues with drivline vibrations. it seems a lot of people put up with it for a while after doing it then eventually get hacked off with the idea and stick in a landcruiser axle at the back so the diff is offset oncemore i dont konw if there has been much success using fancy props to solve the issue.

some good comparison pics there keep them coming, always nice to see things in pictoral form. i'm keeping my eyes open for a patrol front axle should one come up at the right price and those pics look promising.

What are the details of the locker in your back axle, is it factory? through hearsay i had assumed patrols only came with open diffs or a rather nice lsd, but from what you're saying this is not the case.

keep us posted, intresting project.

[willfromsussex]

Right.. to answer some of the questions.

FRONT AXLE:

The hockey sticks were so close in spacing that i figured 5mm a side would be of absoluetly no issue whatsoever, they are rubber bushed at both ends anyway.

The spring seats are not suitable, they coil springs are different diameter so I was going to fit RR seats , and also build them up a couple of inches higher (on stilts sort of) . This is also necessary to utilise the RangeRover shocks . The advantage of using RR springs and shocks is that it will still be possible to buy upgrade packages of springs and shocks and there should be no problem with them fitting . However, the advantage of using the patrol design of shock absorber (not inside the spring like RR) would be one could lose the shock towers , gaining more engine bay room for things like air filters, batteries and the like. The Panard rods are of similar design and it would appear possible to make a custom one using the end of the RR one and the end of Patrol one.

Steering rod is also same design and the RR trackrod end does plug into the tapered hole in the Patrol knuckle, but seems a little smaller so I need to check that it is safe to use it as-is ,or whether to do a similar thing to the panhard rod idea of using the correct ends of the respective parts and joining them up .

There 3 types of hub used on Y60s depending on what country spec it is. All UK have free wheeling hubs with manual override . Imports sometimes have fully auto hubs, and in some rare cases (like on a LH drive Saudi spec car i have sitting here) have fully fixed hubs, great for offroad, not so for road.

REAR AXLE

Everything had to be modified to get this axle in, and I don't really recommend it if you were not using the kind of power train that I am using, which requires the diff to be in the centre. I had to cut the middle balljoint mount from the RR axle and weld this to the top of the Patrol Diff. This requires serious amperage as the metal is very thick, and this is such a critical safety item.

The spring seats and shock absoorber mountings also need making, and the lower link arms are not really in the right place. I cut the Patrol brackets off, and welded them back on further round to make it go together right. An alternative way would have been to make custom lower link arms, but I wanted to keep as much of the standard Rangerover suspension as possible for (partly) ease of getting spare parts .

As for the different diffs available:

Talking ONLY about the Y60 model here (the coil spring wide arched patrols with round headlamps built from 1988 to 1997

ALL UK SPEC Y60s have airlock (vacuum) rear diffs. There is a capsule on the outside of the diff housing with 2 vaccum lines that run all the way to the engine compartment where they go to a pair of air solenoids, fed from the brake vacuum.. There is also an electrical switch which operates the light on the dash once the thing has engaged. These do not work as slickly as ARBs etc, there is often a very big delay before it actually engages. You need to flick the switch long before you need the lockup, and sometimes a little wheelspin is necessary to get the parts to click in , and the light to come on. They are however seemingly indestructible , even when used on dry tarmac.

IMPORT Y60s . Imports can be spotted usually by the year letter of the numerplate, the earlist Y60 sold in UK was 1992 ish, so if you see E F G or H reg Y60 you know its an import. ALso they tend to have KMH speedo and no lights in the rear bumperettes. These can be Japanese or even from Cyprus, or other places. I have never seen the locking diff on any of these, but one often sees LIMITED SLIP DIFF. These work well in my experience, and I think are better for road use, snow / ice etc. Also I have seen Y60 with completely open diff. Import diesel Y60s also are sometimes 24 volt, bear this in mind if you are planning to buy a whole vehicle and use the engine as well.

I do not know the axle ratios.

The 4.2 engine is very long, and yes also tallish. I have had to cut half of the front crossmember away for the crank pulley to sit in it. I still may have to cut the bulkhead as there is very little radiator room.

Hope the info is of interest.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Very interesting thanks

Was planning on completely debracketing the rear axle and welding on stock LR item. Must get on with it! I haven't yet tried a spring on the front perches so didn't realise the LR ones wouldn't fit. I think I will stick with making the shocks external of the springs though as it makes servicing SOO much easier. Sounds like we have the same axles as mine also have the manual free wheeling hubs and the vacuum locker. I just need the strength having popped a LR diff the last 2 times I have driven the Disco!

[callum]

i'm afraid you have set yourself up for being bombarded with lots of questions, i'll try and minimise them. sounds like you've had a fair few patrols i'd be interested to konw why you've decided to combine the two vehicles to create what, in my opinion, will be a great truck, but will require a lot of work to put together.

regarding the diff ratios i was sure diesel y60 was 4.10:1, but reading that thread on outerlimits, it seems they are 4.11:1. 3.9*'s are from the petrol tb42's i belive and the 4.3's came in the commercial gq's that we didn't get here, chassis cabs and traybacks. they also came with an enormous rear diff. i forget its number, but again, there wont be any on these shores. in any case, seeing as you are using the complete drivetrain i can't imagine it concerns you

whilst on the subject of diffs, are the diffs front to rear interchangeable or are they different? i cant think in my head which way things are turning etc.

sounds like a lot of work at the back. i had been considering running gq or gu front and land rover salisbury at the back. it would require paying someone to whittle some hub adaptors from land rover 5 to jap 6 stud (i think there are some american manufacturers of these) and also procuring a dana 60 ring and pinion to match the diff ratios. i have read that there is a 50mm difference in track with between the two , which would mean that with spacers they should line up ok. that would solve alignment issues with the lt-230 as i don't have the skill or equipment to be welding axle cases.

again having gone for the whole patrol drivetrain, you are sorted here.

good luck getting the engine in, keep us posted.

[willfromsussex]

basically , I do a lot of towing a heavy trailer, I LOVE y60 patrols, mechanically i just cannot fault them, BUT they are getting to the age where they are really starting to rust now. You can't ring up some place and order in repair sections like you can with early rangies, and even if you could, the whole shell is welded like a late rangey. I want to build a vehicle that will LAST. Rangie body and chassis has the potential for many years use and parts replacement, (love the unboltable floorpan, inner wings, roof etc) but I have had a couple of Rangies recently and the mechanicals just aren't tough enough for my peace of mind especially with the kind of low down torque i would like to have at my disposal. And the standard Rangerover V8s are just abysmol on fuel, even on LPG.

I considered a GMC diesel powered rangie but it's still going to be in danger of breaking things, and being full time 4wd , not as economical on the road as a Patrol.

Thats why I figured the only way to get what I want is to build a one-off. I want this to last me a long time.

That diff rotating conundrum made my brain hurt but after a quick sketch I came to the conclusion they do rotate in the same way when transposed. Assuming the bolt pattern is the same the rear diff should go in the front casing, but the operating solenoid would have to be fitted to the casing (might be tricky to get right) and would also be in a vulnerable position. I think a far better idea would be to get an LSD in the front.

Hmm, wonder if i could get the GMC v8 to run on the Patrol gearbox, that would fix the engine length problem. I don't have a GMC lump to experiment with

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Not sure without looking but I think the propshaft flanges are different front and back (though this could be swapped presumably). ARB lockers are available for fronts at same money as for a LR so that is the route I would probably go down. I have read a post somewhere which summarised the diff ratios in patrol axles. Apparently the Spanish military version has the lowest ratio (for the biggest tyres).

[willfromsussex]

Took the main bodyshell off today with the help of a friend. Love the design of these early models. The two of us were able to lift it off and carry it to where I wanted to store it. Bulkhead and inner front wings remain on vehicle for time being.

[callum]

Took the main bodyshell off today with the help of a friend. Love the design of these early models. The two of us were able to lift it off and carry it to where I wanted to store it. Bulkhead and inner front wings remain on vehicle for time being.

been waiting for an update on this.

now i see the shell free of the chassis, i did read in a landie magazine (LRW), probably about 10 years ago now, of someone rebuilding an early 2 door who, once he had sorted out and repaired the shell, sent it for galvanising. i would think that would make your range rover incredibly long lived...and shiny.

You're probably not ready to look at such stuff yet, i imagine there is a great deal of fettling still to be done to the body to get everything to fit, but it might be worth considering when the time comes. will save you having to weld the footwells and inner wings in 10 years time. zinc is also closer, i think, than steel to ally in the galvanic series, so there would be less hassle with aluminium panels rotting out too.

when you're next in the garage...any chance of some pics of your front axle setup please. interested to know how you have mated the panhard and drag link and also how you have your spring seats positioned.

keep the updates coming

callum

[willfromsussex]

Galv? Wow, yes that would be nice but I don't know of anywhere that can handle something that big. Lot of extra work I rekon, removing rivets, taking all the sound deadening pads off, be curious to know the cost though.

Sides of the shell have been sanded by me and painted with 'Rust Bullet' paint , which is supposed to be really good. (Anyone used it?) My plan is to sand / sandblast the underside of the shell while it is off , and put this stuff on the underside too. Will also apply to chassis. Upon reassembly I will be putting waxoyl in all the joints , and covering the unseen areas too. I guess the most precious part is the bulkhead, I wonder if they ever plan to reproduce these? That would be very cool. Seems most other body parts (or repair parts) are available.

[willfromsussex]

Well, heres a mini-update

made some 2 inch lift blocks for the body, don't worry only temporary for setting up purposes. Only made four, because I only have the bulkhead and inner wings on the vehicle at the moment.

So I have installed these and now I have a bit of extra height to avoid the sump -v- crossrod clash, and the steering box -v- injector pump clash, and to some extent, crank pulley - v- front crossmember issue.

I have had to remake the engine mounts of course, and I have also mounted the whole engine and trans 3/4 inch to the left side of the vehicle to solve a bulkhead clash and also help with the steering box .

Phew. this is painstaking work and just cannot be rushed.

so here is the RH mount being fabricated.

and here I am cutting out a slab of 8mm steel to make a gearbox crossmember mount. This will be welded to the patrol gbox xmemebr and hang from the rangerover chassis holes.

Here it is in place, it took literally hours to align everything, there is no room for error trying to squeeze this enormous lump into a Range Rover.

thats where i'm at at the moment. Next job is finish the trans mountings and then get a panhard rod on the front.

I think I am creating a monster!

[willfromsussex]

Panhard rod made, and i have also put in the Patrol steering column, by welding the base of the Range Rover column to the Nissan column. Luckily it is the same length. I have gained up and down adjustment from the Patrol (see the hinge near the bottom)

all connected up and now the wheels turn when the steering wheel does.

I have started modding the pedalbox now. I am trying to squeeze the clutch servo in, this means moving the brake servo and pedal over to the right, and moving the clutch pedal over to the left a bit. A new bulkhead plate is being made to acheive this.

[callum]

good to see it progressing, keep up the good work

[willfromsussex]

well, just for you callum (i'm wondering if my vehicle is not to the approval of many of the folks on here)

Plate installed and we now have both master cylinders in place. Incredibly tight squeeze, now mounting the pedal boxes. Plate had to be made angled to get the cyls more upright , and the corresponding pedals at a more suitable angle.

[callum]

well, just for you callum (i'm wondering if my vehicle is not to the approval of many of the folks on here)

Plate installed and we now have both master cylinders in place. Incredibly tight squeeze, now mounting the pedal boxes. Plate had to be made angled to get the cyls more upright , and the corresponding pedals at a more suitable angle.

i'm sure its not just for me, i think there are plenty of closet (and not so closet) jap fans on here. i just really like what your doing and am enjoying following this build. i think you are following a path not many have travelled down before. with patrols getting old and crusty these days and rangies not being blessed with teh finest running gear from the factory, this seems like a good solution.

here's some reading for you now that things seem to be moving along

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=132576 should you at any point not think you have anough power.

and if you can manage through that, if you don't think your front end is quite flexible enough

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=117558

they have started making repalcements for the standard arms, so seeing as you are now using thie nisssan arms you could take advantage of this. not sure how off road you are aiming your creation to be.

keep it up

[DEANO3528]

Basically, whatever floats your boat!

The beauty of LR's is the ease (relatively) with which you can adapt and modify them to what you have available/suits your pocket/matches your ability.

Carry you on Will, I find it intriguing, especially how different people work around the myriad of problems associated with such projects.

If LR had put decent sized engines in from the start rather than listening to British farmers and hauliers ideas of what constitutes a powerful engine, things might have been very different.

[willfromsussex]

I'm actually not planning to off road this , apart from my driveway which gets pretty impassable in a normal car during winter. I'm building it for comfortable road use and towing a car trailer. And I'm building it to last. I want to still be driving this in 15-20 years.

As for turbo, I have purchased a donor Patrol which has a turbo converison done to it, (rare to see in UK) so i may try and install that kit onto this engine, but I think it is wise to give the thing a shakedown in its standard form first.

[willfromsussex]

here cometh the next obstacle, the handbrake drum is further back , higher, and further accross than the original . Cutting of floor crossmember necessary.

I will box this back in later . floor panel behind it needs a bulge in it too by the look of it.

Look at the size of the prop mounting, 4.5 inch PCD and M12 studs.