Worse MOT ever (are you sitting comfortably)

[Davecrx]

Hi

So after lots of hard work I book my Disco into the MOT station that my uncle is a mechanic (but not a mot tester)

My Disco is a ex 300tdi 3 door but now is fitted with a RRC 3.5 v8 with megasquirt and all the trimmings. I must say it was the first time i had driven the car with the MS and it run lovely and smooth. Also had a bit of get-up-and-go from the low comp engine which it never really had.

The morning of the test I looked over and under the car checking everything over, making sure everything worked as it should and I could find no problems.

I arrive at the test centre 10 min before my 2:30 appointment and the tester turned his nose up at it and said "thats a weekday job, not something I should have to do on saturday).

I dropped the key of and went for a walk into town to get a few things for xmas, walked back an hour later (thinking it should be done by now) and they had only just started doing the test.

About half an hour later I hear the v8 start up and rev a little, I thought to my self they must be doing the emissions. 10 min now pass and they start reving the hell out of the engine then they rev it to god knows what and hold it the for a good minute. It was screaming way to the point I thought it was going to let go.

Then it all goes quite a few minutes later the start it up again and drive it out the building and into the car park.

Then a bloke comes into the waiting room and said "landrover is all done. It failed on a few things." ok i thought thats what owning a land rover is all about.

So he then tells me what "front offside indicator not work, nearside rear anti-roll bar link excessive play and the tester had to stop the emissions test because the engine over-heated, but it was reading to high anyway so it wouldn't of passed if it hadn't over-heated"

I replied with "What! Thats more than likely due to the fact your tester was over reving the engine" he said "no thats what has to be done to get a good test" i looked at him turned around and walked out to see what had happen to the car.

So i turned on my laptop plugged it into the MS and started the engine and It was hunting, misfiring, temp gauge was reading 97c and it sounded rough.

I also tried the indicator which worked fine, just like it did that morning and on the drive to the test.

I then went back in paid the bill and left.

On the drive back home (2.5 miles) the engine was getting worse. every time i put my foot on the clutch to come to a stop the rpm will drop to idle, the oil light would come on and it would stall. Got home and by this time it was getting dark so i just park it up and today i will be trying to see what damage has been done to my V8

Well thats my rant over I hope its made a nice read for everybody

Dave

[longlandy]

Dont just roll over complain , legal action, trading standards.(personaly id wait outside and brake the testers legs)My mother took her disco to a halfords/aa centre(now closed) and had a similar bs ordeal, though they said it was unrepairable and needed a new loom????????? obviously it went straight through a test elsewhere.

[Davecrx]

Dont just roll over complain , legal action, trading standards.(personaly id wait outside and brake the testers legs)My mother took her disco to a halfords/aa centre(now closed) and had a similar bs ordeal, though they said it was unrepairable and needed a new loom????????? obviously it went straight through a test elsewhere.

Dont worry I am plaining on going back. I just wanted to get some info to back myself up first.

First thing monday i'm going to the garage down the road from me and have a chat to there mot tester to find out the facts on emissions.

[bobed90]

I just did a quick google search on mot procedures for emissions, if the tester was doing what you say, then clearly he was not following correct procedure. I would certainly following this up with a call to vosa.

Engine speed and temperature

When checking exhaust emissions, the engine must be at its normal idle speed and normal operating temperature.

Engine speeds and temperature can be assessed either subjectively or by reference to manufacturer's or other reliable data

A. All vehicles

1. Raise the engine speed to around 2500 rpm or half the maximum engine speed if this is lower.

Hold this speed steady for 20 seconds to ensure that the inlet and exhaust system is properly purged. Allow the engine to return to idle and the emissions to stabilise.

a. assess the engine idle speed.

b. assess the smoke emitted from the tailpipe at idle,

c. rapidly increase the engine speed to around 2500rpm or half maximum . engine speed if this is lower and assess the smoke emitted from the tailpipe. Allow the engine to return to idle.

Hope you get everything sorted ok, I always try and use a tester that is used to landrovers. I had one pull the handbrake on while he was driving it down the road! so i am very cautious.

Jason

[Quagmire]

Did they think it was a diesel or something? I thought the emissions were at idle on a petrol vehicle...

[Dave W]

If it fails on idle emissions they can do a fast idle test instead, basically that allows the closed circuit emissions to come into play as they are normally disabled below 1500 RPM or so.

However it is "fast idle" not "rev the nuts off it".

Don't you have a rev limit setup in MS ?

I do wonder if he entered the details correctly and didn't think it was a diseasel though.

[dirtyninety]

You test a diesel at flat out dont you? I bet they just tapped the numberplate into the little machine and followed the instructions that came up. To be honest I think you went to an MOT centre where the tester was clearly stupid.

[Quagmire]

Is kind of worrying if the MOT tester didn't realise from A)- the sound, and B) the exhaust smell that it wasn't a diesel though.

I bet that if the DVLA records show it as a 300tdi the monkeys doing the test just did a Diesel test rather than engaging their braincell.

*edit*- dirty90 beat me!

[dirtydiesel]

As a current mot tester, my gut feeling is that the tester was intentionaly trying to fail you car because he didn't like it.

But:

They could have been trying to get the cat up to temperature to get it through the 1992 onwards emission test. does yours have a cat?

But you've fitted a rrc engine so you should have notified them the date of manufacture of the engine, this has to be done in the form of an engineers report the emmision test can then be carried out according to the engines age rather than the vehicles age.

Also the tester is personally liable for any damage caused during the test, but proving it is another matter

You can complain to vosa, But the complainst procedure includes another test paid for by you at a test station of vosa's chosing!

And given that it's a oldish vehicle proving that the indicator worked at the time of the test, and that the engine and it's cooling system were in good condition? would be very hard!

Also is you temperature guage accurate?

Good luck, but i think your stuufed?

In future always observe the test being carried out.

[M&S]

Regardless of the tester and the methods used surely you should be able to rev the nuts of any engine for a minute without killing it. If not there's something not right elsewhere...

[Davecrx]

Right a little up date.

The tester did put the car though as a petrol, i noticed this when i looked on the Direct.gov MOT history checker that the fuel type had been updated at time of test but on the log book it states petrol and has sense May of this year.

As for trying to heat the Catalyst (if that is what he was trying to do) when he was checking the exhaust system he should of notice there wasn't a cat in the system but i also hadn't stated that the engine was from a 1988 RRC.

But thinking shouldn't the car failed due to the fact it didn't have a cat fitted??

Having looked over the gas analysis report this is what it read:

Fast idle test FAIL

Engine Speed = --- rpm NOT CHECKED

CO level = 0.97% FAIL

HC level = 84 ppm PASS

Lambda = 1.03 PASS

Second fast idle test NOT DONE

Natural idle test NOT DONE

OVERALL RESULT ABORTED

Spoke to my uncle who works there and he said he was trying to get the engine hot to bring the levels down, which is why he was reving it so high.

The MS does have the rev limiter set to 5500 rpm but it cuts fuel not spark as i'm running edis and as i've never reved it that high before i wouldn't know what sound the engine makes when sitting on the limiter.

I understand that trying to prove any damage has been done will be like having a wee into the wind, but its the point it shouldn't of been done like that and the tester should in my eyes be sent way and trained again.

Anyway on a good note after adding 4L of coolant back into the system cranked it over and it seems to run fine apart from it now is slightly hunting at idle.

[Davecrx]

Regardless of the tester and the methods used surely you should be able to rev the nuts of any engine for a minute without killing it. If not there's something not right elsewhere...

Need I say more

[RustyNissanPrairie]

Its got to a stage were I hate the MOT-not because of the test itself but of the incompetence of MOT testers I've dealt with since owning a LR.

The problem being that my 110 is a class7 MOT-there are a 3 or 4 class7 centre's near me. I dont think any of them have ever tested a Landrover before.

#1 Centre pulled the handbrake on whilst driving even after me telling him how it should be tested. Never been back since.

#2 Centre was okay the 1st year and Tapley'd it and hill checked the handbrake, the next year that guy has left, new guy said he'd Tapley it, then put it on the brake rollers, passed MOT, got certificate, argument ensued. Never been back since.

#3 Centre-Ford main dealers,guy gets arsey about having to Tapley it, general feeling of not wanting to test it, wont be going back there.

The old guy who tests the wifes car and all mine before my Landrover is great, gives you a bulb and screwdriver when you've forgotten to check the numberplate light, tweaks the headlights if there out,etc, and dosnt do repairs so no interest in failing it providing its correct. Pity he's only class4. The independant LR garage is only class 4 as well.

[tom td5]

on the Nationwide subject,

a few months ago i was unemployed so the job centre made me a 4week work trial,

so any way i found there workmanship shocking, it was not just a one of thing this was every day,

Saying they have done a full service on a costomers car, when in actuall fact all they had done was lift it up on the ramp and not botherd to do ANYTHING at all!!!

it was the same with cam belts saying they have been fitted when they havent its a joke to be honest!!!

Aaron

[Adam001]

What's wrong with using brake rollers? Or using it while moving?

Adam

[rusty_wingnut]

mine does the handbrake test, pulling it on whilst moving, not using rollers.

Very dodgy, though it doesn't seem broken and the bloke is decent enough.

[Retroanaconda]

As does mine. The hill test is an accepted alternative though, so next time I will ask if they can do it that way for me

I think it's worse with the X-brake as it tends to 'grab' rather than the drum's ability to slip more.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

If you spin the one axle's wheel stationary and spin the others (as you'd do on roller brake testers), then the centre diff will be spinning - something it's not designed to do. I think several people on here have killed centre diffs by doing this.

With the handbrake, it's a transmission brake so it acts on the propshaft rather than the rear wheels. This puts the braking torque onto the gearbox/engine mounts via some rather weedy brake shoes. Now, supposedly this is a bad thing.

I'm not entirely convinced by this one - in fact when I finish a journey, I normally use the handbrake to stop the vehicle. Not with any speed mind, just to stop it rolling as you come to a stop. It gives me peace of mind that the handbrake is working, and the vehicle will stay where I left it.

IMHO providing that you don't jam it on while hooning along it should be fine.

Commiserations Dave, but it sounds like it's ok. Maybe if you take it for a retest, set the rev-limiter to 3k temporarily?

[elbekko]

At my last MOT-like thingy, the tester had it on the rollers where only one roller is driven (so the other wheels turns opposite). He pulled the handbrake, and wondered why nothing was happening... I pointed out it grabbed on the propshaft. He went "oh", and proceeded to test it properly by letting the clutch come up a bit with the handbrake engaged.

And over here I've heard many stories of those tits blowing up engines, and I'm pretty sure they broke the rocker shaft on my last 300TDi. It stops being a coincidence to have engine trouble two weeks after the test after a few times. Here, for the diesel test, they keep the engine at 3000rpm (or more if they don't feel like being careful) for 30ish seconds. That made me very, very uncomfortable to be honest. I have little problem with that if it were to be done under load, but this way **** will break.

At least you can set your rev limiter, be thankful for that.

[Disco-Ron]

I have never yet seen one of my diesel vehicles tested at anything over tick over and low revs........

And the brakes on my LR are always tested on the rollers, at very low speeds, and done after a mere second or two rolling, never had damage yet! oh, and once my xbrake is on, i won;t let him test that on the rollers..!!

[Bowie69]

What sort of revs do the 200/300TDIs do at cruise? Isn't that going to be around 3K rpm? So why should it do any more damage than if you were driving up and down the motorway?

[dirtydiesel]

As for trying to heat the Catalyst (if that is what he was trying to do) when he was checking the exhaust system he should of notice there wasn't a cat in the system but i also hadn't stated that the engine was from a 1988 RRC.

But thinking shouldn't the car failed due to the fact it didn't have a cat fitted??

There is no failure for cat not fitted

Fast idle test FAIL

Engine Speed = --- rpm NOT CHECKED

CO level = 0.97% FAIL

HC level = 84 ppm PASS

Lambda = 1.03 PASS

Second fast idle test NOT DONE

Natural idle test NOT DONE

OVERALL RESULT ABORTED

They are the emmission test limits for a catalyst equiped vehicle, there is no way you will get a non cat vehicle to pass them, unless of course your a god at mapping and have pre and post cat wideband lambda sensors and the facility to run a open loop system

[crclifford]

RNP,

Have you thought about getting the Class changed on your V5C???? I recently did this on my 90 (photo of the VIN plate showing the actual weight (2400kg) and sent it off with an amended V5 to DVLA)

Came back no problems

Chris

[zoltan]

Is it not still the case that if there is no engine number match on the computer (i.e. another engine is fitted) that they have to do the 3.5% CO 1200ppm HC test?

[elbekko]

What sort of revs do the 200/300TDIs do at cruise? Isn't that going to be around 3K rpm? So why should it do any more damage than if you were driving up and down the motorway?

Mine does 3000rpm at 150 km/h... and that isn't healthy for long periods of time. Normal cruising is ~2500rpm at 120-130 km/h.

I've always been told there's a big difference for an engine between revving under load or not, what those differences are I don't quite know though.