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series 3 engine conversion


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#1 IHenson

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 12:28 PM

i am looking at putting a new engine in my series 3 landrover and was wondering what would be a good swap???? also any snags i might hit along the way??? thanks

#2 Phil Hancock

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:54 PM

Whats in it now, how many miles per year will you be doing, what will you be using the vehicle for, what is your budget???????

#3 Gremlin

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:33 PM

Easy.............tdi.................... :i-m_so_happy:
1974 Series 3, Tdi power, The evolution of the series 3.
http://forums.lr4x4....showtopic=47251 - the build.........

#4 stuck

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:39 PM

Wash your mouth out Gremlin.

V8

To be honest it depends what you want, bit more information wouldn't go amiss.
2000 110 4.6 V8.
100" 4.6 V8 CCV Truck
1954 86" Series 1 with serious tin worm issues.

#5 FridgeFreezer

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:37 PM

All about tradeoffs, the two main choices are:
Any Rover V8 (3.5 to 4.6) or a 200/300TDi.
V8's are cheap to buy and hilarious fun in a Series, but drink fuel. TDi's are more money to buy but very sensible fuel-wise. Both options give a useful power & torque increase.
The third option is to go further outside the box - there's plenty of space to fit almost anything you can imagine with a bit of time & effort.
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#6 pitbull63

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:48 PM

Was recently told a 200 tdi minus the turbo was a good option.
Increase in power,good fuel economy and removing the turbo gets rid of all the problems of the turbo catching the chassis(?)

#7 ejparrott

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:46 PM

I believe V12's have been fitted, and someone I once knew of fitted I think it was a 6.2lt BMC diesel!
Series 3 88" 1983, Series 2a 109" 1970, Series 3 109 1972, Honda Shaddow 750cc 2006

www.pt-engineers.co.uk

#8 Phil Hancock

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 08:47 PM

A friend of my wife had a Perkins 6-354 in a series 109" and on U-Tube there is a 109" with a Cummins 6BT fitted.

#9 pitbull63

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:34 PM

It also seems that getting a Discovery TDI is a better buy £ for £ than a Landy one as they seem to be cheaper on that auction site ;)

#10 FridgeFreezer

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 01:18 AM

Was recently told a 200 tdi minus the turbo was a good option.
Increase in power,good fuel economy and removing the turbo gets rid of all the problems of the turbo catching the chassis(?)

That's one version - the other version is that it's a frickin' pointless thing to do because you're too lazy/incompetent to make an exhaust pipe that fits. The excuse I heard was that removing the turbo was kinder to the gearbox (lest the fire-breathing power of the 200TDi wrench the earth from its axis), mine never seemed to mind with the 3.9 V8 in front of it :huh:
Oh and there's loads of people running 200TDi's in Series so evidently "all the the problems" are not beyond the wit of man.

Since GMC 6.2's and Perkins combine-harvester engines have been mentioned, it's worth pointing out that not all engine swaps are for the better, even if they do give you better numbers for power/torque. Just because you *can* fit anything doesn't mean you should. There's a lot to be said for being able to buy all your parts off-the-shelf from a LR dealer if nothing else.
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#11 TheRecklessEngineer

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:39 AM

That's one version - the other version is that it's a frickin' pointless thing to do because you're too lazy/incompetent to make an exhaust pipe that fits. The excuse I heard was that removing the turbo was kinder to the gearbox (lest the fire-breathing power of the 200TDi wrench the earth from its axis), mine never seemed to mind with the 3.9 V8 in front of it :huh:
Oh and there's loads of people running 200TDi's in Series so evidently "all the the problems" are not beyond the wit of man.


You pushed one of his buttons!

No one start carbs vs EFI or else the south coast of England might be demolished by a small atomic explosion. :ph34r:


(I do agree with him though - don't pull the turbo off a 200 TDi just because it's difficult to fit.)

He seems to have a veg oil fetish.

Free waste vegetable oil collection in Somerset

#12 ejparrott

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 01:30 PM

I blew a turbo hose last spring in the cold weather, I thought it might have been concealed bio, but lots of diesel and warming up made no difference - until I looked under the bonnet and cursed a bit! Anyway, point is, the performance was awful, I couldn't get over 40mph, and struggled to get to that, having to use my OD as a half gear all through the box. The fault can't be blamed on restrictions in the system, as the pipe that blew was the one onto the inlet manifold, so she wasn't even fighting a filter. I agree with FF, not fitting the turbo is just plain lazy, EXCEPT! I think it was tuko who did this, because in Sweden you can't uprate the engines HP by more than 10% over original spec...or soemthing like that anyway.
Series 3 88" 1983, Series 2a 109" 1970, Series 3 109 1972, Honda Shaddow 750cc 2006

www.pt-engineers.co.uk

#13 FridgeFreezer

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:07 PM

If I was swedish I'd demand a dyno test, think Jen's 300TDi Disco dynoed at ~30bhp at the wheels!

I'd imagine a tuboless TDi would need re-tuning to take account of the lack of boost etc. as it's fundamentally a 2.5 diesel so should be able to chug along quite happily all being equal.

My main dislike is claiming things are improvements when they're not, at least be honest about it. I don't claim leaf springs are comfier than coils, I kept them on the truck 'cos I want to keep it Series-ish and I'm bloody minded.
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#14 Snagger

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:37 AM

There is a place for the 200Di version, but the engine swap would probably be forced because of dire condition of the existing engine and the need for a frugal and reliable replacement. A Di would have performance comparable to the 2.25 petrol engines, so the swap certainly wouldn't be for performance reasons.

The Di is a lot easier and cheaper to do than the full 200Tdi. It wouldn't suit all owners, including me, but there are some owners who's needs it fills perfectly - you can retain the standard Series rad and front panel, delete the oil cooler and intercooler and get away with using the original exhaust (Glencoyne's website shows how to make clamps to use the 2.25 exhaust manifold). Let people make their own choices without angry tirades.

The Discovery version of the 200Tdi has turbo clearance issues. On an 88", this can be resolved by rotating the compressor casing and drilling and tapping new waste gate actuator mounting holes. A 109 needs Defender manifolds and turbo. These are rarer and more expensive than the Discovery engines.

www.nickslandrover.co.uk - You don't have to suffer in a Series!


#15 rusty_wingnut

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:15 PM

I would like to see someone should try something like the Freelander Td4, rather than yet another Tdi "because the masses said so."

-1967 MGB with megasquirt
-1957 Series 1 109" PU, tuned 2ltr petrol
-1996 300tdi 90

-2007 Freelander 2


#16 ejparrott

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:32 PM

The Discovery version of the 200Tdi has turbo clearance issues. On an 88", this can be resolved by rotating the compressor casing and drilling and tapping new waste gate actuator mounting holes. A 109 needs Defender manifolds and turbo. These are rarer and more expensive than the Discovery engines.


No clearance issues with my 88, no intercooler either, turbo is as LR built it, Series rad and original unmolested front panel. My 109 uses a 300 turbo, and makes fitting the exhaust a doddle, the 88 will be swapped to 300 turbo when the chassis swap comes round
Series 3 88" 1983, Series 2a 109" 1970, Series 3 109 1972, Honda Shaddow 750cc 2006

www.pt-engineers.co.uk

#17 FridgeFreezer

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

Let people make their own choices without angry tirades.

If you point me to the bit where I told him "don't do it" then I'll happily apologise. Everything else is just opinion.

@Rusty - A TD4 could be quite good, not sure how well it would lend itself to conversion. The Rover 75 CDTI(CTDI?) uses the TD4 minus the VNT, could be easier/cheaper lumps to find. That said, the Audi 1.4 TDi that someone did looked very good for a "light use" vehicle (as in not pulling heavy loads) as it makes good power and very good MPG.
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#18 sussex-landy

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 03:59 PM

I put a standard 3.5 rover V8 in my 1970 series vehicle with original front (now has a fiber glass defender over the top) and original rad but I had to remove the engine fan and weld the water pump up to the pulley mount and only have an electric fan now which is probably easier on the engine anyway, no point running a fan all day when its not hot. Its a squeeze though with all the ancilliaries and power steering but looks good and pulls like a good un :)
Robert

Land Rover Series 1970 Hybrid V8 (sold April 2013)
Land Rover Series 1972 Restored original (sold March 2013)
Land Rover Range Rover V8 2001

#19 IHenson

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 04:36 PM

its a 2.25 petrol at the moment, if im honest i hardly use it mainly because it costs me about 10pound to start her up, tdi sounds like the best option thanks

#20 discomikey

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 04:48 PM

a 200TDI even with the turbo is more or less as straight of a conversion as you can do, so long as its an 88", i think on the 109"s in some cases the turbo hits the chassis leg?

the turbo does NOT need to be rotated contrarily to what most poeple say. mine aint and it fits just fine.
i dont particularly drive it soft sometimes and aint never had any gearbox problems. only clutches but thats more to the fact that its pushing what you can do power wise without spending big money. most series owners dont care for power like this, only want the useful increase in torque you get from a normal TDI.

try to avoid cut and shutting pipes wherever possible. i made up prototype pipes and then took them to a scrap yard where i searched for pipes that are the same. the only cut and shut ones now are the bottom hose (which ive never seen 1 piece in this conversion but could be done) and the top hose which i think ive found a replacement 1 piece for.

use the series engine loom it more or less fits straight on. and use the disco alternator though you will need to crimp on different connectors.

the rest is a piece of cake bar the exhaust which i had custom made but theres no reason an eblag special 90 tdi conversion downpipe wouldnt fit.
just dont use flexi!!


disco radiator mounts will need to be welded onto the chassis (or possibly drilled into front crossmember. and the intercooler will fit sort of staggered in front and across from it. make sure that the steering relay arm doesent touch the rad on full lock. you can use series 3 diesel standard fuel linesbut may need to connect to the pump with different thread connectors, the pipes should be long enough and make for a nicer looking finish.

front panel will need to be cut to make room for disco rad and intercooler but from outside will still look the same!



and ive never put a v8 in, because real trucks dont have spark plugs :P

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