tukko Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hello guys, I'm started yesterday with rebuild of my 2.5TD engine. It's a later type engine that's why i give it a chance. So no need to argue about that. I lifted the engine out yesterday en took the head of. I saw four pistons imo in good condition. But i've a reasonable doubt about number two and three. There's also something written on the top of the piston heads. I took some photo's, can any one tell what it means. It's looks like that all the pistons are oversized??? What means 0,020, SP0,04 and 90,93 You can also see on the second picture that the surfuce of the pistonhead is damaged. What could be the cause of that? Cilinder 1 Cilinder 2 Cilinder 3 Cilinder 4 Hope that you guys can help me! regards Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 20thou oversize rebore i think, i'd have to check the manual when i get home, was only looking at it last night too! rough calcs and memory says standard size is 3.562" bore, and a 20thou rebore should be 90.98 - as thats only 2 thou different....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi Roy, Could you give a little background on the engine? Was it running before, reasons fr stripping? Was it "breathing" excessively through the oil filler cap? The 2.5TD suffers from heat issues due to the lack of an intercooler (just look at your pipework, straight from the turbo into the inlet manifold!). Two, Three and Four look a little iffy on the top right of the pics. Are they missing material form excessive temperatures? (dont want to say melted) Theres going to be a lot of recommendations to dump a 200Tdi instead of replacing pistons etc but if you do persevere it would be worthwhile putting in an intercooler to reduce further stresses. (It was something I was going to do on my 2.5TD but plumbed for the 200TDi eventually). Keep us up to speed with progress fella. Where abouts are you based? Cheers G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukko Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi, Yes, the engine was running. Actually very good i must say. It pulled really well compare to a 2.5 NA. I build it in my 90 three months ago, went from Holland (Enschede)to Driffield with it with no problems. It came out of a old 110. I've no history at all of the engine. What i do know is that the engine is breathing heavy. The main reason of the rebuild was that the oil light goes on while the engine is warm. What indicates that the shells of the crank and big end could be worn. Then my college suggested that when i replace the shells i could also check out the head because the easy access when everything is out of the car.So that's why. Tomorrow i'll strip it down further and maybe i can take the pistons out tomorrow. i'll try to make better photo's of the pistons. Roy Based in Enschede Holland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 My TD was a good engine, until it popped a core plug in the head which I assumed was the headgasket, and then dropped a TDi in too. They're much underated engines. The one we've been having trouble with in the series 2 was always very very reliable in the previous vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukko Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hello, Does any one have the right torque settings in Nm for the 2.5td engine. Crankshaft, big-end, head gasket etc. Is there somekind of liston the forum? Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 should be in the haynes manual, very comprehensive list in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 There oversize pistons and i'd say a timing belts gone on it while at high RPM and valves have met the pistons.. My opinon of the TD engine is not the same as EJP's... I think your wasting your money and should spend it wisely on a TDi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 My opinon of the TD engine is not the same as EJP's... I think your wasting your money and should spend it wisely on a TDi. Ditto-It'll save you a world of trouble and you know it's going to be easier to replace and not have to rebuild it again later John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 There oversize pistons and i'd say a timing belts gone on it while at high RPM and valves have met the pistons.. My opinon of the TD engine is not the same as EJP's... I think your wasting your money and should spend it wisely on a TDi. I had a TD do that on the M20 years ago, it came home on the back of a transporter. I took the head off but when I dropped the sump I found the crankshaft had snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G4FUJ Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I had a TD do that on the M20 years ago, it came home on the back of a transporter. I took the head off but when I dropped the sump I found the crankshaft had snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hi again Roy, I recall (Ralph?) mentioning that low oil pressure can also be caused by worn cam bearings (yes a little bit left field I know). Price up the cost for new pistons etc before commiting yourself, a second hand MOT failure 200TDi Discovery would give you everything you would need for a conversion and can be bought for as little as £300 to £600. Its not that difficult a conversion. I imagine you are weighing up the options at the moment with cost plus the need to get the vehicle back on the road quickly. Keep us up to speed fella. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Just to wet your apetite! http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=2394 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hello, Does any one have the right torque settings in Nm for the 2.5td engine. Crankshaft, big-end, head gasket etc. Is there somekind of liston the forum? Roy a few from my hynes manual. main bearing cap bolts: 133Nm big end cap nuts: 34Nm head bolts: 123Nm sump bolts: 18Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 a few from my haynes manual. main bearing cap bolts:133Nm big end cap nuts: 34Nm head bolts: 123Nm sump bolts: 18Nm the figures you gave are correct according to my genuine defender workshop manual, find it on retroanaconda's website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 main bearing cap bolts:133Nm big end cap nuts: 34Nm head bolts: 123Nm sump bolts: 18Nm the figures you gave are correct according to my genuine defender workshop manual, find it on retroanaconda's website thanks for confirming that Ralph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 your welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukko Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thanks for the comments. A 200tdi is for me no option at the moment. It's very expensive in Holland (900 euro) and a overhaul cost me another 400. And that engine will probably have a high mileage as well. I'll stick to my plan. Yesterday we stripped the engine further down en we find out that the engine is build in 1990. It has also the oil things that spray oil under the pistons. Not a clue about the name. The pistons are out now and we had good look at the pistons and cylinder walls. We where surprised how good it looks. Walls are smooth en pistons are okay. I got rid of the black coal on the top of the pistons and they look good. number 2 and 3 have little damages on top. Probably from debris that has been blowing in by the turbo. What we also found out is that the big end shells are over sized 0,10. I don't know about the crankshaft yet. I'll figure that out next monday. i'll try to make some pictures today. Don't get me wrong guys! I know that the other engines are much better but it's for me not an option at the moment. And i must also say that rebuilding this engine is for me a challenge. The fire station where i work has a fully equipped garage and in the evenings and week-ends I've plenty time to work on the engine. so i just give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Piston cooling oil spray. I do hope the big end shells are under size by 010, not over size......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukko Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Pica's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukko Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I went this morning to the specialist this morning. He did some measurements on the pistons. One piston is 0.5 mm smaller then the other ones. Strange they should be the same. The damage on the edge of the third piston is caused by the injector. They should be checked. The surface damage on piston two and three is caused by probably some metal or something like that. Piston rings where bad. I was going to replace them anyway. And the coal on the pistons is probably caused by not a 100% timing of the injector-pump. All the necessary parts just arrived at my door 5 min ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Good to see your persistence Tukko! As mentioned I think you could really improve the lengevity and cooler running of your engine by fitting an intercooler. Les henson made one here and the following post would help with some ideas for running pipework but alternately Intercoolers are so common now you could probably get one froma scrap yard for reasonable money (and some hoses also). Hopefully I have been able ot twist your arm into doing it! keep us up to speed with piccis! All the best G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerboy_y2k Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Good to see your persistence Tukko! As mentioned I think you could really improve the lengevity and cooler running of your engine by fitting an intercooler. All the best G My mates 19J was fitted with an intercooler, it still cracked all 4 pistons and the pre combustion ports on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Les henson made one here and the following post would help with some ideas for running pipework Thats got me thinking about my 88 again now...glad you raised that post up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tukko Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Yesterday i cleaned the engine. Got rid of the last bits of seals etc. The crankshaft could move to much side ways "axial clearance" with the old shims. Fortunately i ordered the right over-sized shims. 0,025 was the right size, so the clearance has gone. I put 0,010 crankshaft bearings back in they're the right size. So the crankshaft is back in it's place. Today i went to the Bosch service center were they tested my injectors. All of them where okay. I did some work on the injector pump. I replaced all ready a couple of weeks ago some seals but today was a nice day to do some more replacements. Also some cleaning and new seals for the front crankshaft (genuine) and rocker shaft (genuine). Pica's CAV pump Old stuff Genuine parts New parts in, can't hardly see the differance Shiny on the inside Nice and clean with new seals Tomorrow i'll do some work on the head but i'dont have much time because i'm at the training center tomorrow. Thursday is father & son day so Friday maybe some assembling. Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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