Jump to content


Photo

Sam's 3.5 Disco MEGASQUIRT START/FINISH INSTALL THREAD! :)


  • Please log in to reply
542 replies to this topic

#1 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

y0!

Exciting day today, my full MS kit is currently on the courier's van!

Bought from Nige @ Megasquirt-V8.co.uk, I simply asked for everything I could need, every option and accessory to aid or improve fitting and use.

This was no small at the end of it but I'm hoping my extra investment now will be worth it in the long run.

The only other thing I may look at is Wideband Lambda but I am advised this really is not necessary!!

The dashboard will be coming out so I can tidy the wiring etc (including wiring that i have already fitted for lights etc) and hopefully make a really neat install.

I am a mechanic myself so know my way round the spanners and am not scared of wiring as such, but this level of work will be new to me really, however I am hoping to break it down into bitesize chunks and it shouldn't be too difficult, not until we turn the key anyway cos that's when the real fun starts!! :D

The purpose of this thread is to document the install in a pic heavy manner, discuss things and try to give an idea to the everyday "works on his own car" handyman what is involved for MS1 install when you've never done it before! Hadn't even looked at Megasquirt properly until 2 weeks ago!! :o

Next update will be a look inside the box when it arrives!!! :)

Cheers! :)

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#2 iomlt

iomlt

    Old Hand

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 487 posts
  • Location:isle of mann / Hull

Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:24 AM

look forward to this, hopefully this will help educate me about my own install a little more LMAO

#3 zoltan

zoltan

    Old Hand

  • Long Term Supporters
  • 814 posts
  • Location:Kent

Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

Unless you like guesswork I would get a wideband.

I know it is not 'necessary' but I reckon there is not much in it between the cost of the extra fuel the narrowband way and the cost of the wideband and it is a very handy tool to have in your armoury

<Flame suit on> :)

Runners: 1984 110 V8 CSW LPG, 1970 Gaz 66 Radio body, 1980 Uaz 452 'loaf'
Non runners: 1965 Series 2A Dormobile, 1953 Series 1 80"


#4 FridgeFreezer

FridgeFreezer

    Director of authenticity

  • Supporters
  • 16,988 posts
  • Location:Gosport, UK

Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:50 AM

Good luck!
Yes*
*No

#5 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

Thanks guys!

Yep, flame suit required!!!

Nige ASSURES me that the WB is not needed, and i believe him, but the point still nags that why else would people use it??

I am told that WB sensors are very fragile and have a short life, so i assume they are used for tuning only, and then replaced with NB for everyday? Or once tuned do you not use a sensor at all and run in open loop? open loop is better for performance right?? will MS1 even run in closed loop?????

I see that a very popular WB setup is the Innovate LC1. Its a bit of a dark art to me at the moment, but i guess one thing i need to know is:

DO I NEED TO MAKE ANY PREPARATION IN MY LOOM/SETUP FOR WIDEBAND? or do i simply unplug the NB sensor and plug in the WB and it is simply the voltage output that has such a wider range??

Thought would be appreciated on this please, it's the only part of the build i'm not particularly clean cut on...

Cheers! :)

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#6 FridgeFreezer

FridgeFreezer

    Director of authenticity

  • Supporters
  • 16,988 posts
  • Location:Gosport, UK

Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

Crikey, be calm, take deep breaths...!

Nige ASSURES me that the WB is not needed, and i believe him, but the point still nags that why else would people use it??

Because it's easy and quick and covers that last ~5% you can't achieve with narrowband. More than one person has MS'd with a narrowband, then gone to a rolling road with wideband etc. to get that last bit done and discovered they were so close as made no difference. Bit like your doctor diagnosing everything by running you through an MRI scanner, sure it gives a more complete picture but most of the time it's really not necessary if you apply a bit of thinking.
Remember people tuned carbs by the seat of their pants with no feedback for quite a few years ;)

I am told that WB sensors are very fragile and have a short life, so i assume they are used for tuning only, and then replaced with NB for everyday? Or once tuned do you not use a sensor at all and run in open loop? open loop is better for performance right?? will MS1 even run in closed loop?????

If you have questions like "will MS1 even run in closed-loop" you need to have a read through the Megamanual.
WB's are not incredibly fragile, but traditionally they're shorter-lived than narrowbands, which coupled with their high(er) price means people don't tend to leave them in once they've got their fuel map dialled in.
They also work by respiration with the outside air, so dunking in water/crud is not a great idea.

In answer to the second part, once tuned it's preferable to run closed-loop as the MS will continually fine-tune as you go along (but it does NOT save the fine tuning, it's just doing it "on the fly"). The bottom line is it saves fuel, even if your fuel map is a fair way out. Neither option is inherently better for performance, that depends entirely on how good your fuel map is.
If you've got your setup right (as in not pratted about with the settings Nige put in), MS will only run closed-loop under "cruising" conditions, E.G. low to medium engine load, medium RPM. If you run closed-loop near idle it will result in "hunting" (unstable idle), and under high loads you want to be running richer than 14.7:1, so MS will ignore the sensor and run straight off the fuel map.
Yes*
*No

#7 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

A great reply, thanks Fridge :)

Regards reading and doing my homework, yes I will be doing lots!

Have already read the Megasquirt beginners thread twice, but there's a lot in there to remember!

Going to tackle it step by step, ie not going to think about running/tuning it until I've got the wiring sorted etc, don't want to get ahead of myself!

Thanks again for the help, currently eagerly awaiting the courier!!! :o

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#8 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

It's arrived!! So many goodies in one box!! :D

Pics later!!

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#9 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:27 PM

Posted Image

First job: Find CD, insert in computer and READ!

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#10 mickeyw

mickeyw

    Petrol Head

  • Long Term Supporters
  • 2,535 posts
  • Location:On the edge of Surrey and Sussex

Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

Oh dear! Nige could have chosen a better colour for those lovely little boxes :lol:

All joking aside, good luck with your install.

My 90 is currently running MJLJ, but MS is on my agenda for the future. I have all the bits, just need to find time for the reading bit.

Michael

1986 Ninety 3.9 EFI Auto LPG 'Jolted' | 1990 Range Rover Vogue SE Auto LPG | 1986 One-Ten CSW V8 LPG


#11 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Thanks Michael,

yeah it seems a bit daunting but i'm sure it'll be alright, just take it steady!

first job is get some heat on in this bloody workshop!

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#12 Laptom

Laptom

    Member

  • Settled In
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:59 PM

I just did a Nige install. Also the complete package. It work out great, the RRC runs like never before, even with the standard map from Nige. Started the first time. Enjoy the build.

#13 zoltan

zoltan

    Old Hand

  • Long Term Supporters
  • 814 posts
  • Location:Kent

Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

Posted Image

First job: Find CD, insert in computer and READ!


What is the curious plated tube with a boss on the side? Inlet trunking?

Runners: 1984 110 V8 CSW LPG, 1970 Gaz 66 Radio body, 1980 Uaz 452 'loaf'
Non runners: 1965 Series 2A Dormobile, 1953 Series 1 80"


#14 Laptom

Laptom

    Member

  • Settled In
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

Afm replacement with air temperature boss.

#15 Quagmire

Quagmire

    Old Hand

  • Supporters
  • 960 posts
  • Location:Surrey/Hampshire border

Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:02 PM

+1 for a wideband. No guesswork! (I'm lazy :D)

*edit - have fun with the install, mine has been fantastic- the best thing I have done to it in all aspects (apart from fitting the v8)

#16 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

Pleased to hear that it's definitely positives all round!! :D

Tonight has been a bit of a ****up :(

Managed to crack my plenum base (trumpets) whilst trying to remove it from the inlet manifold :(

Anyway, that aside, I've been opening up the inlet ports a little.

Got bank 1 done tonight, bank 2 tomorrow, then take the dash out and hopefully get the Hotwire and ignition systems removed completely.

Waiting on a new valley gasket and thermo gasket then can start building back together, then start adding MS bracketry etc.

Cheers :)

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#17 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:52 PM

If anyone has a plenum base going spare by the way I need one! :o

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#18 zoltan

zoltan

    Old Hand

  • Long Term Supporters
  • 814 posts
  • Location:Kent

Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

I will have a look, pretty sure I can help with one

Runners: 1984 110 V8 CSW LPG, 1970 Gaz 66 Radio body, 1980 Uaz 452 'loaf'
Non runners: 1965 Series 2A Dormobile, 1953 Series 1 80"


#19 Mr Noisy

Mr Noisy

    Forum OCD Engine Cleaner

  • Settled In
  • PipPipPip
  • 705 posts
  • Location:Altrincham, Cheshire

Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:43 PM

That would be helpful indeed, thanks! Probably worth about 30 quid for a standard unit?? Plus postage etc!

Would like to upgrade to a slightly modded unit but they're a couple hundred quid, have read that the v8 really appreciates modified trumpets but just don't know if I can justify so much cash!

'92 Disco V8

4 wheelin' poverty machine.


#20 Laptom

Laptom

    Member

  • Settled In
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

I thought the trumpets are pretty good for 4x4 work... Modifying trumpets are only good for higher rpm's and higher hp at those rpm's, but your giving up low torque... Something you don't want for a Disco.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users