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P38 Auto box


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#1 neonovice

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

Hi,

 

I've been having issues with my gearbox the last few days. It's a 1996 2.5 DT automatic.

 

It is just pleasing itself when it changes gear, sometimes it stays in what I'm guessing is second. I have plugged it into my Hawkeye and there are no faults listed in the transmission.

 

It is either an ECU issue  :rolleyes: or an actual mechanical fault in the box. I did read on here some time ago that there is a separate doodah that changes the gears but I can't find the post.

 

As always any help much appreciated.


2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#2 Boydie

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

Neo, from your description you have either a 200 or 300TDi, that being the case the P38 referance is confusing as from my understanding a P38 is a V8. 

 

Okay, assuming you have either the 200 or 300TDi then your box is a ZF4HP22, if you do have a P38 V8 then it should be a ZF4HP24, in either case there shouldnt be any electronics, if the box is playing up with gear changed 90% of the faults can be resolved by a service of the govenor, chances are its clogged with goo from the auto-box clutches. 

 

Its not a job for the faint hearted though, apart from the hassle of removing it from the vehicle the internals are fairly complicated, I did my original box before I saw the light and imported an Ashcroft stage 2 one. The Ashcroft Stage 2 is a ZF4HP22 but with the ZF4HP24 oil pump, (bigger and more robust) bevel gears clutches upsized torque converter etc. and well worth the expence.

 

If you decide to DIY get a service manual first, a super clean work area to dismantle and re-assemble the box is essential and patience.  ZF do a complete service kit (valve springs, gaskets, seals and bearings) and I got mine from the USA on Ebay - when / if ordering one you MUST quote the serial and model number of your box as the govenor is not interchangeable, with that of, for example a V8 or 5 cylinder engine as its centrifugal springs and valves are designed to suit the torque and rev range of the particular engine it was designed for.engine


Iain Boyd,
Engineer, raconteur, Rally Driver, Hunter, Adventurer, National Cricket Umpire and Bespoke Epicurean.

#3 neonovice

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:13 PM

Sorry, it is a 2.5 dt BMW Engine.

I have found that it does tend to improve as it warms up.

I dipped the oil in the gearbox and it was very low and very dirty. I only changed the oil and filter on it 3 months ago.

I am going to put new oil in it on Tuesday and see how that helps. I don't think its worth putting a new box on it as she is getting on a bit.

2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#4 paintman

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:32 PM

P38 2.5 is, as you say, the BMW diesel, The 200 & 300 TDis were never used in this vehicle in the UK.

From your description of the fluid I wonder if components in the box are breaking up hence the carp in the fluid. Ashcrofts do comment on issues with auto boxes after fluid changes. Suggest another filter & fluid change on the basis that you have nothing to lose.

Low levels are also causes of autobox problems.



#5 Boydie

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

most good auto box service engineers can connect a mechanical flush unit to the oil cooler hoses and remove most of the crud from the box, its a quick way out of a poor situation, the signs are there that the box is on its way out due to poor attension, 30,000 k's is the max for auto oil and oil filter changes, yours seems to have done well over that.


Iain Boyd,
Engineer, raconteur, Rally Driver, Hunter, Adventurer, National Cricket Umpire and Bespoke Epicurean.

#6 neonovice

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:00 AM

I have found a major(ish) oil leak from what looks like an external oil cooler. Part number ESR2276, I will replace it and see what happens  :(


2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#7 neonovice

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

I bought this but I'm a bit worried now that it is not the right one. It looks to big now I've got the old one off. I'll have to wait and see what arrives I suppose.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1439.l2649


2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#8 Escape

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:08 AM

The listing seems to be seems to be for the sensor in the cooler only, which would explain the low price.

Either way, it is incorrect, as both the cooler and sensor are different for the petrol and diesel engines. Petrol has the cooler mounted in front of the main radiator, along with the engine oil cooler. This is the partnr you mention.

Diesel has a smaller cooler where the left foglamp would be (which is why it's a bad idea to fit foglamps to a diesel with autobox) because the intercooler takes up all the space in front of the radiator. Partnr is ESR2277, superceeded by PBC101420.

I think the cooler in the photo is actually the engine cooler for the 4.6V8, about twice as big as the one for the 4.0. The transmission cooler on a V8 is normally the same size (but a different partnr) as the engine cooler for the 4.0.

 

On the bright side, if the box is low on oil, a top up and fixing the leak could get it to behave normally again.

 

Filip



#9 paintman

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:38 AM

Seems to be a bit of confusion with part numbers, for auto transmissions ESR2276 shows as petrol V8 and ESR3489/UBC100840 shows as diesels

 

You might want to have a look at the microcat parts list:

http://lrparts.ru/engl/

 

Click on 'Spare parts catalogue ' and then the vehicle in the left hand margin & go from there.

 

Pic of ESR2277/PCB101420: http://www.nationwid...on=Search&st=oc

Pic of ESR3489/UBC100840: http://www.ebay.co.u...=item35c3767225

Pic of ESR2276: http://www.paddocksp...oil-cooler.html



#10 neonovice

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:52 AM

Great website. Thanks.

 

You might want to have a look at the microcat parts list:

http://lrparts.ru/engl/


2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#11 Escape

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:14 AM

Indeed, my mistake, the numbers I quoted are for the diesel engine cooler, not the transmission cooler, sorry.

Seems to be a bit of confusion with part numbers, for auto transmissions ESR2276 shows as petrol V8 and ESR3489/UBC100840 shows as diesels


#12 neonovice

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:12 PM

New cooler fitted, oil changed, running perfect. :-)

2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#13 neonovice

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:14 PM

New issue. 

 

Now the dipstick for the gearbox keeps popping out?? I guess maybe there is too much oil? It is high on the dipstick but I put exactly 9.7l into it?


2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#14 elbekko

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:37 PM

Those 9.7l probably exclude the torque converter, which most likely wasn't fully drained.

 

Trust your dipstick.


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#15 neonovice

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:42 PM

I take it overfill is not a good idea?

2000 110 Td5 Truck (Goblin)

1999 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Stigg)

2004 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Gemini)

1980 Series 3 109 200Tdi Truck (Mirth Mobile)

2003 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Ginger Ninja)

2005 110 Td5 Hardtop (As yet unnamed)

2002 110 Td5 Custom Truck (Voyager)


#16 Escape

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:36 AM

I take it overfill is not a good idea?

 

Nope, like Elbekko said, never trust the numbers, always measure (dipstick). When doing a filter change, I usually only get about 5l in, the rest stays in the torque converter, cooler, valves...

It is probably building up pressure do to the overfill as it is also generating more heat. However, the breather tube should be able to handle that, so I'd check that as well. If it is clear, I don't see how there could be enough pressure to pop out the dipstick.

 

Filip






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