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Universal joint sizes - Some advice please?


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#1 Tetsu0san

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:27 AM

Hi all

 

I have an old B reg 110 which I am currently dropping an R380 and a 200Tdi into. As part of this conversion the gearbox is being put in further forward so it is more like the more modern 300Tdi Defenders. As the gearbox is further forward I have been advised that I will probably have to use the 300Tdi Defender front and rear props, although looking at it I think the original ones will still fit. I still have the original props from the 110 and I have also got what I believe to be the front and rear props from a 300Tdi Defender, as well as numerous Discovery front props.

 

Whichever props I use, I want to replace the UJ's, and this is my question. Are early 110 prop UJ's likely to be a different size to more modern props? I have searched a lot on this and it's hard to find a definitive answer as most places only list Defenders from 1986 onwards, and mine is an 84/85. Early 110's can either be listed with 2002 Defenders, or can be listed as Series, and mine certainly isn't a Series. However, I may be right in thinking that the original 110 ones are probably 82mm (or whatever the equivalent imperial size would have been) and the ones in the Discovery and the 300Tdi Defender ones are 75mm.

 

Does that sound about right? And if anyone has any part numbers, that would be great!

 

 

Cheers all

 


'M' reg Discovery 300Tdi - 'K' reg Defender 90 200Tdi - 'L' reg Discovery 200Tdi - '55' reg Jaguar X-Type
'B' reg Land Rover 110 200Tdi - 'M' reg VW Beetle 1303s - 'Y' reg Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.9Hdi - 'Y' reg VW Golf 1.6 16v

#2 Ibex94

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:00 PM

Hi,

Start with the gearbox.
Defender / 90 / 110 Gearboxes should all have a common mounting point. The difference with the R380 / 300Tdi is that the gearbox has a long bell housing forcing the engine further forward in the engine bay. The 200Tdi was originally mated to an LT77 which had a short bell housing and had the engine mounted to the back of the engine bay. For a short period LR offered an R380 with a short bell housing as a replacement spare for the LT77 when they finished producing it. Short bell housing R380's are as rare as rocking horse droppings. So if you plan to fit a std. R380 then the engine will be forward and you'll need to change the engine mounts - probably have to weld some new ones to the chassis.

Re Prop shafts
I think all front defender props should be the same as the gearbox flanges should be in the same place.

UJ's
I'd check what you've got and only replace if you feel wear. If ok grease up well and use them. Decent UJ's aren't cheap and don't get conned by the cheap ones. They tend to be fitted with fewer larger pins than genuine ones and as a results don't take the load failing all to early. If you're not sure find a prop shaft specialist and seek advice. Chards in Bristol have been really good - you may also need there services if you change the gearbox installation from std.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Rob

#3 jbs

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:16 PM

You can get the short bell housing R380's as I've just converted my 90 to one and put an oil cooler on it too i got it from Ashcroft's and while I was at it I fitted a recon'd T box as well, sit down when you look at the price of them   :blink:

 

John


John

 

 

You have the capacity to learn from your mistakes. You will learn a lot today.


#4 Aragorn

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:00 PM

Defender / 90 / 110 Gearboxes should all have a common mounting point.

Nope, there are two different transfer box (and thus gearbox) positions.

300tdi onwards have the TXB mounted about 2 inches further forward than the earlier cars, and thus have a longer rear prop and shorter front prop than pre-300tdi models.

On top of this, the later gearboxes are longer like you suggested.

#5 Tetsu0san

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

I have already fitted the engine and the gearbox, the gearbox is on a crossmember which moves it forward about 2" (roughly). I have to adjust the seatbox, but that is a different story...

 

It's only the UJ's that I am questioning at the moment. I am not in front of the props and I wanted to order some so I could just fit them but with the difference in sizes I just wasn't sure what I needed to get.


'M' reg Discovery 300Tdi - 'K' reg Defender 90 200Tdi - 'L' reg Discovery 200Tdi - '55' reg Jaguar X-Type
'B' reg Land Rover 110 200Tdi - 'M' reg VW Beetle 1303s - 'Y' reg Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.9Hdi - 'Y' reg VW Golf 1.6 16v

#6 Aragorn

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:07 PM

Get the appropriate props, then fit whatever UJ's the props require.

While your existing props might fit, they wont have enough travel in the sliding sections to accomodate axle movement, you really need to get the correct ones.

#7 Ibex94

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:44 PM

I would find yourself a local propshaft specialist and get them to make them for you by modifying your existing units. Then you'll know they're spot on for your installation. My rear cost me ~£60 inc vat for shortening and balancing (needed 40mm cutting out of it), all you need to provide them is your flange to flange dimension. While they're at it they should check your uj's there are some stronger units available to fit the stock yokes but they aint cheap.
If you can't find a propshaft specialist locally then I'd recommend Chard's in Bristol. www.prop-shaft.com They do some interesting and exotic work as well as the more mundane. Plenty seem to deal with them mail order.

#8 nobber

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:22 PM

Early vehicles sometimes used series UJ's, my 1985 Ninety has small ones on the rear prop and large ones on the front, I am not sure about 110's as my parts book is only for Ninetys.

If it were me doing a conversion I would want to keep it as factory as possible then parts are easily bought without the need for head scratching and guess work, not just for you but if you ever decide to sell the vehicle.






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