NEPALandy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Everyone, I've got a 1985 Ex Mod 110 with a 2.5 NA diesel. I brought it to my mechanic last week to change the timing belt and check the valve clearances, and there are now some new issues with the engine. When he checked the clearances, he told me instead of the 0.010 of an inch the manual calls for, my clearances were all out of whack, with some gaps as large as 0.050 of an inch. After the adjustment, the engine seems to generally run more smoothly, however, I'm having the following problems: - When trying to start, the starter begins to crank but then "whines" almost as if there is no resistance on the engine. Almost as if its skipping. Before getting it back from my mechanic, the truck would instantly start if the engine was hot, now it struggles to start when it is up to running temp. - Significant amount of white smoke upon startup - When idling, there is an intermittent "chugging" sound, almost as if the engine is not getting enough air, and sounds as if it is close to stalling out. In fact on a cold start, if I don't rev the engine for a 20 seconds or so, it will stall. - Intermittent clicking/rattling from what seems to come from under the rocker cover under medium to high revs - very pronounced after a cold start during higher revs in 2nd and 3rd gear. Oddly enough the noise is non-existent doing 65 in 5th gear on the highway. The mechanic I brought this to is not a diesel mechanic, but took on the job because the engine seems "simple enough." Along with all the parts to do the timing (including the timing tool kit I'm almost positive he didn't use), I gave him the diesel Defender workshop manual and Haynes manual, so that is what he went off of to do both the timing and the valves. I' Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Retarded/advance timing by the sounds of it. Cant rrmember which way round they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 The timing should be set by using a timing pin in the side of the fuel injection pump to lock it in the right position - if not it's easy to get the timing slightly out so it smokes etc. As it runs at all it shouldn't be far out, There is a small amount of timing adjustment possible by slackening the bolts holding the pump to the timing case - rotating it by very small amounts at a time should see an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEPALandy Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thank you for the responses. I have the 12pc timing kit from Paddock Spares, I believe one of the pins in the kit fits into the injection pump. Is it possible to make the necessary adjustments to the injector pump from the outside (front) of the timing case, without having to remove the entire case and belt? It looks like there are 3 Phillips head screws fastening a plate that covers the front of the injector pump where it fastens into the timing case. Eightpot - Is that what you mean by slackening the bolts holding the pump to the timing case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 The pump is bolted to the back of the timing case with 3 bolts (not the small cover plate on the front of the timing case) and also a support bracket towards the back of the pump. The bolt holes in the pump are elongated, so when the bolts are slackened off, there is about 15 degrees of rotation available. What you should do when changing the belt, is set the crank, pump and cam markers to their correct timing positions, fit the new belt, then with the timing pin fitted in the side of the injection pump, rotate the pump a little till the pin drops into the timing slot, and then everything is timed up bang on. As you've got the front end assembled back up though, you won't be able to set it up this way, so just slacken the pump and rotate it a little at a time till the timing comes in (same principle as setting a distributor on a petrol engine). you might need to slacken off the fuel pipe unions on the back of the pump as well if you find it difficult to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I was under the impression that the 2.5N/A was a chain, not a belt. But yes, it does sound like the timing is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I was under the impression that the 2.5N/A was a chain, not a belt. But yes, it does sound like the timing is out. No, the 2.5 NA was a belt and everything after is a belt upto the TD5. the 2.25 was a chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 -there are two positions for the crank locking pin depending which year engine it is. The earlier ones had a small metal plate on the upper clutch/flywheel bellhousing towards the drivers pedal box-difficult to access. Later 2.5NA's are timed from underneath by fitting the pin in the bellhousing drain hole-but be aware there are two slots that the pin can fit into -think one is 15BTDC if I remember correct. The fuel pump and cam sprockets are timed by aligning the arrows on the timing case with the 'dots' on the two sprockets with the crank locked. Dead easy once you get it apart. The fuel pump is then 'fine tuned' by removing the 'plug/cap/cover' (1/8" bsp) on the right hand side of the pump, fitting the small fine tipped timing pin, then loosen all three M8/13mm af nuts and the M8/13mm af nut and bolt on the rear bracket, loosen the pump to injector pipes and wiggle the pump till its loose. Poke the timing pin in and twist pump till it locates ever so slightly further inwards and tighten the pump back in position. To honest the pump timing dosnt make a massive difference, I time my by hand and ear when the engines running. It sounds like yours is a tooth or two off in the belt timing. Its dead easy doing the timing belt yourself - if you cant do it then older Landrover ownership isnt for you unless you have deep pockets im sorry to say, besides 2.5NA are dead easy to work and learn on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thank you for the responses. I have the 12pc timing kit from Paddock Spares, I believe one of the pins in the kit fits into the injection pump. Is it possible to make the necessary adjustments to the injector pump from the outside (front) of the timing case, without having to remove the entire case and belt? It looks like there are 3 Phillips head screws fastening a plate that covers the front of the injector pump where it fastens into the timing case. Eightpot - Is that what you mean by slackening the bolts holding the pump to the timing case? The 3 philips screws only remove an inspection cover. Front plate has to come off timing chest for belt, Pump is as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEPALandy Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Thank you for all the feedback. The only caveat to the whole timing discussion is the issue I'm having with the valve clearances. As I mentioned, when my mechanic first removed the rocker, none of the clearances where correct (some gaps as large as .050 inch). Since doing the timing belt and resetting the gaps, I put probably 30 miles or so on it and experienced all the sypmtoms that I described in my first post. Last night I removed the rocker again to recheck the clearances, and they were all out of whack again. I think 3 kept the .010 gap, but a few others were even tighter that .010, which is cause for concern. In fact on one valve, I could feel the gap changing clearances (tightening) when I slowly turned the crankshaft with the feeler guage still on the valve. As far as I can tell, my problem is either bad rollers or something with the camshaft. I figured I'd rather have larger gaps than having things too tight and end up buring a valve, so I adjusted all of the clearances to about .020 inch, and the engine returned to its normal loud, rattling state that I'd been used to. I haven't played with the injection pump at all, because I think the valve clearances were causing all the issues I mentioned. Does this make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEPALandy Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I should clarify that after loosening the gaps to around .020, it starts on a dime again., there is not excessive white smoke upon startup and idling is more consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 off the top of my head clearance should be .20 & .25 - but please double check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEPALandy Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 The valve clearances for both inlet and exhaust are .25mm/.010in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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