Pastycrimper Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Hi All, I'd really appreciate your opinions. I ordered a new galved chassis from Marslands - I've seen their chassis before and never seen any problems/issues. They have just called me and said it is ready but that there are dull blemishes and variations in the finish on the rear cross-member and that it doesn't have the normal immediately shiny gaved finish (I'm aware galv does dull over time but normally I'm used to it being "shiny" straight out of the dip). They said it was something to do with too much silicon in the metal(??). My concern is I am breaking my bank for this rebuild and obvioulsy the new galved chassis is pretty much the key point of the whole thing. I'd be furious if I started seeing rust after a few years. Even moreso if this is elsewhere on the chassis So should I reject it and ask for another? Or do people think this is quite normal! As mentioned all Marslands chassis I've seen before have seemed really well galvanised so I don't want to upset them unecesarily but at the moment I am uncomfortable accepting it if there is an issue with the galving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabber Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Get in writing, the issues and ask them if they'll stand behind anything that may crop up with it. As in covering the costs to fix it. I'd say that dull area would be fine, since the process is a coating. If it looks bad, you could always get some galvy spray paint and make it shiney again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studmuffin Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 High silicon levels do affect HD Galvanising. In extreme cases it means there may be delamination(flaking caused by poor adhesion). I cannot see that they can use this as a valid excuse as they presumably buy a specific grade of Hot Rolled Pickled sheet for their manufacture. All steel grades have Euronorm standard specifications which set out their maximum percentages of chemicals allowable within the melt for that grade. If it helps ask them what steel grade they have used ( even better a mill test cert) and I can probably tell you the permitted maximum silicon and you can then get some advise from the Galvanisers Association Tech department to put your mind at ease or otherwise. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Thanks Barry, I was of the understanding that Marslands purchased genuine Landrover chassis and crossmembers either direct from LR or the OEM supplier for Landrover (GKN???). I'll try and get some more info..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Marsland do not make the chassis, they buy from GKN who make them for LR, then the required mounts are fitted then sent for galvanising, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymorris Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 It won't be worth having a warranty as I've been told marshland are closing because gkn will cease making chassis's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Ignoring the closing bit, they are providing the chassis and the galv, if the chassis is going to affect the quality of the galv (particularly protection) then they should either warranty it or replace as far as I can see. They may state that visual blemeshes are not quality affecting but then it would be warranted? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'd be asking for some pictures before I made a decision TBH ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studmuffin Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Just for my own interest I checked the Euronorm standard. It does not have an allowable maximum % for Silicon, but all mild steels contain some silicon as its used as an de- oxidizer. In a previous life I used to work on the basis of 2.5 x Phos% + the Silicon% should be less than 0.09% of the steel cast for a good Galvanised finish. Zinc adhesion and thickness of deposit are not a straight line graph. Todays rule of thumb seems to be a good coating up to 0.10% silicon, which drops dramatically until 0.4% silicon when the zinc keeps reacting with the steel to form a thicker coating. This can discolour to a darker finish. That is not to say it will necessarily delaminate but I would still want assurance. Even then I would want to inspect the suspect area and have a good chip at it with welding hammer to check for flaking. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 That's it. This is all about them giving assurance as to wether the longevity is affected or if it's purely cosmetic . My assumption ? Is that they must believe it is purely cosmetic of they wouldn't still be selling it? Have you (the OP) been back to them, quoting studmuffin, that high silicone content can reduce adhesion and bring about delamination ..... And can they give you assurance that isn't the case ? Their answer will dictate where to go next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboBen Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I was about to order a chassis from marslands but think I'll wait and see what happens here first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel_90 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I've ordered 2 from Richards this year and I'm impressed with the quality and finish of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Hi again, I am currently working at sea and internet/checking forum hasn't been too easy. I'm returning home tomorrow evening so I will devoting 100% of my time on this. Thanks all again. I did receive two photos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 ....although it's been so long since I posted a photo I have forgotten how.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Pictures copyright to j.e.marsland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studmuffin Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 In the second photo the discoloured area on the outside cosmetically looks poor, but may be fine in terms of iron / zinc bonding, but the bit that would worry me is inside the cross-member. It looks very spelterish( lumpy), which often can mean poor adhesion. Remember these are the bits you cannot do much to protect except wax oil. Silicon levels in a steel mix are distributed equally through the mass so, logically I would expect the discolouration to be less localised. Maybe the problem is from the galvanising process? You really need to view it in good light or use a torch and a telescopic mirror. Give any parts you can get to a good chipping with a hammer or hammer and cold chisel. If you see any pinholes this is a really bad sign. I don't think they are by any means a bad supplier, because they told you first and didn't try to bluff it, but IMHO at the end of the day, it aint cheap and it aint quite right. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Can you not just ask for the next one in the pile? The fact that they've mentioned it to you means they've admitted the quality is lacking. Unless they are offering a discount? Otherwise why have they told you at all? To try and get to you agree to buying a sub-standard item at full price by having full disclosure? If it'd been delivered and you found it in that condition, you could return it due to distance selling and not being of satisfactory quality anyway. So at least rejecting up front would be saving both parties a lot of hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 As mentioned in my OP....I have seen Marslands Chassis fresh from delivery and I have never had any issue with them - quite the contarry they always looked of really good quality.....one of the reasons I ordered. For other memebers this post is by no means a maligned target at Marslands. Quite honestly I believe (from what I have seen) both Marslands and Richards supply great chassis. My issue is I have worked and saved for this rebuild for awhile now so as dailysleaze mentioned I cant help thinkng that the normal quality for this particular chassis isn't quite there else why would they mention it in the first place. I have asked that I'd rather another one....I'm just one of the wierdos who feels really bad and guilty asking for such, but it IS the intergral part of doing the rebuild so the thought of any substandard galving would destroy me if I found it rotting in a few years time. I even felt guilty posting on this forum thinking that maybe if anyone from Marslands was watching they may take it as a negative slant on them. The truth is I allmightily paranoid about galving. I recall being a lad on Dads farm and him buying three 16ft gates at the same time 20 years ago - two are still standing strong and one started rotting within 5 years so I am aware that galvanising isn't just as imple case of dunking something in a tank of hot liquid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 @ StudMuffin - Ithought about looking at it up front but I am only a couple of miles from Lands End so it's quite a journey at a time when I have plenty of other local chores having just spent 5 weeks at sea. Plus I am not quite sure what I would be looking for even if I did see it up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The fact your asking the question means you have doubts. simply say you would be happier with a different one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Just ask for a different chassis, tell Marslands your not convinced the 1st one is properly coated, I'm sure they will do there best for you, I had no problems when I ordered mine from them in Sept 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 It's a tough one. The galvanisers said "that the dull galvanising occurs when there is a lot of silicon in the steel but it does take on more galvanising than normal so is better protected." Obviously that sounds great but as Studmuffin said (as has a local galvaniser) that too much silicon can cause bad adhesion - so I am left with an element of doubt. Marslands have said they'd supply another but it could be a long wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studmuffin Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Maybe it would help to clarify why more silicon gives a thicker coating. This is not necessarily designed for items like chassis. As I understand it generally steel mills select higher silicon content in high tensile steels for production of things like Z purlins for industrial or agricultural roofs.They are static structures after section rolling and are designed to coat up to 600 gms per metre2 for aggressive atmospheres rich in sulphur dioxide, whereas I may stand corrected but normal galvanised coating weight is around 275gms/m2. The problem is that an unrestricted silicon over 0.10% can decrease the zinc deposited, until it climbs towards 0.4% silicon, when the zinc deposited then carries on reacting with the steel before it cools to form a thick deposit. All galvanisers are aware of this and don't want to put a heavier coating on the job as this seriously reduces their profit margin. Hope this helps Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastycrimper Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Thanks again Barry, It interests me too. I understand your point on coating thickness. What I'mnot too clear on is the level of adhesion. A thicker coat sounds great but can the high silicon affect how it adheres to the steel? A thick coat which "flakes" off is what I am worrying about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studmuffin Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I was hoping for someone who works in Galvanising to give a definitive answer. But as I understand it the coating thickness and adhesion depend on- Whether it is new steel new build. How successful the acid pickling is in removing any mill scale. How good is the pre-treatment. The temperature and time spent in the zinc bath. The levels of silicon and phosphorus in the steel matrix. Personally I would be happy with a bright,uniform, shiny, spangle finish which will react with the atmospheric conditions and contaminents to form a dull hard shell which gives you your protective coat. Think steel farm gates. There may be loads more that I don't know about. Try ringing the UK Galvanisers Association and ask to speak to their technical guys. Quite often these people are very helpful. Hope this helps Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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