PeteMck Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Hi Guys. Changed the head gasket yesterday and now the vehicle turns over but doesn't start. Fuel pump working and done self purge sequence. My current thought is that the people who skimmed and pressure tested the head didn't put the injectors back into the same holes they came out of. Did the injector clearances when we reassembled the head and checked all the timing. Engine turns over fine and we turned it all over by hand when we were reassembling it to make sure the valves etc weren't going to foul. I can hear the pump running, but the engine turns over as though it's not getting any fuel. Any thoughts on what it could be other than injectors in the wrong place before I get my mate to bring his diagnostics over (a 2hr drive for him). Thanks for any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Hi, You could be right about the injectors being in the wrong order, but I wouldn't have thought it would stop it running. I know from previous experience that you have to do a lot of purge cycles and cranking to get it to start, so don't think that one purge cycle will be enough. From what you've said everything seems to be in order, so keep pursuing the purging and cranking and see how you get on. The only thing that will stop the engine from firing is the crank sensor, but you shouldn't have needed to touch that! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Purge only goes as far as the injector pump, so there will be a lot of air still in the system. That may be all that the problem is. Starting it on the battery can take ages and it's common to flatten it. Ignition on and get someone to tow you up and down the road in second gear. That usually works. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Cheers for the responses guys. Yer I flattened the battery. Lol. Ran the cycle 3 times in total. At first you could hear the air moving in the system but then it quietned down. Yer I looked on the various forums, some people said it shouldn't stop it starting, although quite a few people appear to have had non starters due to injectors in wrong order. :s but there is literally no sign of life, like when you turn a 200/300tdi over without the wire on the injector pump. However I can hear the fuel pump working, so presumably I havnt triggered the immobiliser. I didn't disconnect the battery so could this have upset the ecu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 TD5 doesn't have an "injector pump" - it's common-rail: each injector generates the high pressure needed for injection as and when it needs it. With the initial purge cycles you'll hear the air coming through as gurglings/swishings from the tank-pump (whose tone will change) and the fuel filter. Once this gurgling/swishing has stopped, do another half-dozen purge-cycles, with a gap of 5 or 10 minutes between each one to allow the diesel to find its way into all the right places. Only then actually try cranking! Injectors in the wrong holes shouldn't stop the engine from starting - it's likely to cause 'cylinder imbalance' fault-codes to be thrown though, and possibly lumpy idle/hesitation. Re-coding the injectors isn't an onerous task if you've got the right software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Purge only goes as far as the injector pump, so there will be a lot of air still in the system. That may be all that the problem is. Starting it on the battery can take ages and it's common to flatten it. Ignition on and get someone to tow you up and down the road in second gear. That usually works. Les. Not on a TD5 though Les? Fuel pump triggered to a purge cycle by ignition on and pumping the accelerator to the floor five times should circulate the fuel along the lines, through the head, to the injectors and back again whilst the EML flashes. Once isn't often enough but it sounds like the OP has done this multiple times! Checking the injector positions/codes would be the next thing for me as you have already suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yer I know td5 doesn't have an injector pump, was saying it sounds like a 300tdi with the injector pump wire off. In other words it's just cranks and cranks and cranks without so much as a splutter, but I can hear the fuel pump working and have purged the system serval times. Sadly I don't know the injector positions as I got the company I took the head to to remove them and foolishly I didn't make a note of the original order. So apart from injector order being wrong I guess valve timing would have to be 180 degrees out, as the Pistons don't hit the valves, but had all the timing marks lined up when i did the timing chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Td5 will run without the correct injector codes it will just be lumpy... The fault sounds more like something else, purge cycle should be done at least 3 times before trying to start as above. If it still fails to fire after that it could be a fault with the fuel delivery or return having an airlock in them. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Is there any hint of injection actually taking place? Whitish exhaust-smoke? Smell of unburned diesel in the exhaust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 If the cam timing is correct its just down to purging and a decent cranking speed.As said injector positions are irrelevant to actually run the engine. Even after the fuel pump has done several purge cycles the engine will usually need extended cranking at a decent speed to fully bleed the EUI's,(Electronic unit injectors) to the extent that they will actually start to inject fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Cheers for help guys. Just needed a lot of bleeding and cranking. took 4/5 more bleed cycles and a fair bit of cranking but it's idling very smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wudweezil Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Hi all. Sorry to drag this thread back to life, but it probably has more life than my defender has at the moment. All similar to the previous posts. . 2 days of purging cycles - pump sounds smooth and even. Redone the injector seals again with even more diligence to fit and cleanliness , after hearing a slight gas/fuel squelching sound from around 2of the EUI's. Battery on constant charge to keep it to the max. Not a cough or whisp of smoke anywhere .All plugs cleaned and reconnected. Any other ideas? I don't have nanocom or anything and being out in west cork Ireland land rovers and enthusiasts are thin on the ground so little chance of local help. Can EUI'S and crank sensor be at least checked for connection with a volt meter? thanks in hope. Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 When purging the first few times, did you get a lot of gurgling and fluid being moved sounds? (If not I'd suspect the pump even if it not making a noise) If left, does the pump switch off after 30 secs - 1 min? Also, check to see you haven't banged or dislodged the connection on the Inertia switch on the bulkhead just behind the engine. Push the button on the top and try again. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 In addition to Neil's advice, has the crank position sensor wiring been disturbed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wudweezil Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Thanks for the replies and sorry I haven't come back sooner. I checked wires that were disturbed during the head removal/refit process and found the crank sensor wires broken, and in the injector plug on the end of the main engine harness, the plastic mouldings that keep the pin-sockets in position had broken away allowing all the sockets to be out of line when refitting. Suspecting that the integrity of the rest of the loom was not great in the long term, I replaced the complete engine management loom at a cost of £380 the best price I could find, from island 4x4. Also replaced the crank sensor whilst access was good. Engine started almost immediately- perhaps the best ever restart after disturbing the injectors or anything to do with the fuel system, on my particular vehicle, which is normally a real cow to bleed through. It definitely helps have a full tank when bleeding a td5. Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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