But 1st "What is Meagsquirt" ?

Heres an exellent explaination courtesy of Simon R of X-Eng :



"Megasquirt is effectively a DIY fuel injection system.

It was developed as an 'open source' project where lots of people contribute to the hardware and software.
The best bits of design get incorporated into whatever the current version is - and the bits that are problematic do not (by a process of peer review).

The result of this is that it is very solid and reliable - as well as being low cost and easy to install, modify, re-program etc.

The hardware design is freely available - so you could scratch build a MS unit if you wanted to.
Most people however build the hardware from a kit or get some kind individual to build and test it for them.

MS allows you to define and tune your own fuel maps. You can over time make it a perfect fit to your truck rather than a one-size-fits-all ECU or Carb.

Later on in the development, they came up with a way of replacing the distributor by fitting one coil per spark plug (or one between two) and triggering which fires and when electronically.
This allows you to set your own advance and retard curves and tie them accurately to what the engine as a whole is doing.

What you get, or at least can get, is more power, easier starting, smoother running and better economy.

It can be fitted to any vehicle with fuel injection where it just plugs in to the existing injectors.
It can also be used with carbs using what is known as 'throttle body injection' where you disconnect the fuel supply to the carb and fit a big injector which just squirts fuel into the inlet manifold. It just uses the butterfly valve in the carb to throttle the engine as normal.

MS has been fitted to all kinds of petrol engines including chain saws, bikes, lawn mowers - as well as cars and trucks. It is that versatile.

It could potentially be used to run a common rail diesel injection system - don't know if anyone has done it yet though.
Some people have even used it to control LPG, Nitrous or water injection.

To tune it, you load a bit of free software on to your PC and plug it in via serial RS232 or USB via a serial adaptor.
Start with someone else's fuel map for a similar engine then by looking at the mixture via the lambda (oxygen) sensor readout in the software - tweak the settings to be better.
It has an auto-tune function which gradually does this itself over a period of time.

Si R "




So, ..........onwards I now go on this Mission

Its all that F Fridge blokes fault ................

Megasquirt this megasquirt that,
its the dogs doo dahs days etc etc etc



Eventually he got to me - and I sort of went half way -
I megajolted it - and was impressed,
I thought that would be enough,
I had afterall a now waterproof V8 ..........and the injection side was OKish ...........(oh no it was not).

Misfire after misfire has plagued me,
and a mate far better than me on V8s is equally puzzled,
but, at the end of the day when a near 30 year old EFI goes wrong you are in queer street,
and the parts new are frankly £££ frightening..


Even more so when those "Parts" are Jag ones,
the Eales V8 I have had Jag injectors (£128 each) Jag AFM arround £700 sir ) ..........and so it goes on.

I had with mates helk changed tweaked tested and given up......
a call to mark adams sort of sorted it -
in his words the flapper was "Bordeline cr*p when new - at 30 years old just brace yourself".

So, when it works its beautifull, .........water holds no fear,.......
but the misfire arrives when you just do not want it......





OK Mr F Fridge, its 'Megasquirt time' - for the 'Eales'.


For those who don't know the "Eales" is an old late 80s Race V8
built by guru engine builder John Eales,
having fully rebuit it I know all is OK - esp after the last EFI Misfire where mate said
"Are you sure you have not hydrauliced it"
and we stripped it fitted a Webber 400 4 Barrelll and all was fine - except it does not like angles side or back or front.

So, I now know the EFI is the issue..............................



Megasquirt.

OK

The really good news for me is that some work is already done :
the triiger wheel and bracket,
the Coil packets and bracket,
this can be found in the Tech forum here :
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=1014

This shows the process to get this far

I have now

Fully removed the EFI harness wiring,
and all the megajolt wiring too
so I have a EDIS plug with wires,
2x coil packs with no plugs
and a VR sensor on a bracket with no plug

I will now <drum roll> accept Mt Fridges taunts - and have a go a squirting it - FULLY




This post will show exactly how I go about it,

This will include fabrication of both steel bits and Wiring and a how it goes blow by blow.



In (advance ) I would like to thank ( in no particular order) :

Mr 'BBC' Ian Gildersleve, Jon White, Fridge, Mr 1664 and Mr Nureophen



Ok so,
at the mo I have a 4 barrel webber carb,
(this could be similar to a 2x pair of SUs or Stombergs.

Previoulsy it was a EFI Flapper system with JAG AFM and JAG Injectors. It will be coverted to the simplier Hotwire sytem along with abfew trick bits I have aquired, but basically this will help anyone looking to HW and MS a V8

The lambda sensor need a bung or 3 welding in - 3x in Y piece - :

Click to view attachment

and shove back on,
then remove bonnet snorkel and other bits in the way :

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

so far the filter housing carn and manifold along with the valley gaskey have been removed

For those V8 Porn merchants out there look at the pic of the valley - towards the front of the engine,
you'll see 2x holes drilled in the front of the block these aid timing chain lubrication,
and are a good Mod on any V8 Build - anyway back to the matter in hand :

Click to view attachment

Here is the Inlet manifold back on - albiet it a "Porn" version big bore jobbie

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Here for the V8 Porn fans are the (left to right) Std RR V8 Trumpet, eales, and then "er Big Thingy Version )

Click to view attachment

Fitted along with Hotwire injectors and rail etc and rocker covers

Click to view attachment

Fit water pipes which are a nightmare on this as the coil pack bracket then needed modifying and tweaking,
also the Air Box - on the carb V8 the bottom Air cleaner bracket mount to the manifold, to the EFI no chance,
so have modifed welded up brackets so the joining on the back on the head studs
which is a load more work than you think

...just a tad of fab later :

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Binning the AFM Means a pipe is needed,
here one with a adapter fitted to have a screw in MAF sensor - number later on,
the back of the plemum shows no Air Box and also I have to fir the Bosch 2 wire EAV equiv
or the stepper motor which I have been told the MS can't drive - so more fab. :

Click to view attachment

Add (in this case Big Bore 4.5 Special Plenum) and the pipe above and it starts to take shape :

Click to view attachment

With mods to the Bracket for the coild and those and the pipework top Drivers rocker fitted things are filling up :

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

So, although I have to connect and make whatever to joing the Heater pipes to the pipes on the Driver Rockers,
Bung up the EAV hole on the penum and a few others bit the metal work seems sort of maybe done

Next is to build a EFI MS Loom - this will follow shortly - starting tommorow !

Nige

Excellent topic with good write up and pictures.

Just wait then for the screaming and whinning noises elecrical engine harness building starts,
which will prob be next weekend

Nige

Did I mention I'm very busy for the next year or so and can't be disturbed?

Just noticed how far forwards your engine is, mine is almost flush with the bulkhead
Click to view attachment

Hi,

I think MS can drive the Stepper motor. Well, definately MS-II can do.

There were some problems on the forum with the stepper-related idle speed (some high idle after startup which, but when the engine then was shut off and restarted was fine). I think these are thing of the past with the latest code (something with the steps, i.e. the minimum amount of steps to do. Ahh, don´t ask me ..).

The Rover stepper motor looks very much like the GM item as shown on the MS homepage.

If you look at the success stories there is Phillip Lochner with a 4.6 discovery. He is using a stepper. And he experienced those problems. But I think all is well now.

IF MS couldn´t drive a stepper I am running into problems with my rebuild. So don´t prove the above statement wrong !!!

Again, not my knowledge - I am only reporting via the thread

I am told (almost certainly correctly) by both Ian G (BBC) and Monsewer Fridge that the MS I have will not drive the RR V8 Stepper - hence the bosch version.

Nige

You're all right - MS as standard will not drive a stepper motor, however the MS-II (a plug-in CPU upgrade for MS-1) will drive a stepper among many other fabulous things.

However, IMHO steppers are more trouble than they're worth - they clog up and stick and are £eeek to replace. The Bosch valve Nige has is a 2-wire PWM one which MS can drive happily and the wiring is easier too. I have no warmup valve whatsoever on the 109 and so far it's not been a problem.

As per Mr Fridges comment :

This is the PWM off a Volvo, 2 wire, and tap the number into Ebay and they are plentifull n cheap

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Comes with a handy bracket, for ease and its also rubber mounted etc, ...and as you can see in the pic the part number




Then the back of the plenum where the stepper motor a la 3.9 not being used leaves a hole,
I guess you could hack the RR one about, but a neater solution I thought would be a 'bung' shoved into it,
It is though a weird thread - enclosed pic of bung and part number and size and pitch - M20 x 1.5 :

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment


More to follow ..............................

Nige

You mean you didn't TIG a nice bit of ali into the hole Nige?

Don't Start

and anyway, have you seen the price of 20mm filler rods ?

Nige

you can pay for filler rods?




when did that start?

Yes, and don't I bloomin know it...

Flipping expensive too (esp stainless...)

Al.

I use mig wire for Tig'ing steel and stainless, I now the feeling with ally rods - they hurt the wallet and I cant blag freebies , its one of those things that cost to build up a decent "library" or rods and then its just topping up whatevers used. The plan is to build an anodising bath next so Ive got to start hunting about for low silicone rods now eeeek

Man I wish I'd thought of that. Even 5kgs of stainless filler hurts. But as you say, its nice to have a 'library'.

Mind you, I'd have to keep stopping with the wire cos the diameter is lower, so the volume per unit length will be, and so I'll run out of length quicker and keep needing to adjust my grip. Its bad enough with some proper tig filler which is thicker, of course, than the mig wire, and I dunno how to feed it through my hand as I go, so I have to stop...

Its expensive buying parts, and its expensive making them!

Hmmm... Al.

buy a reel of fat wire, 1.6 or 2.4 (I havent got enough horsepower at the lab to need much bigger than that until the autum). cut what you need into 1 metre lengths, straighten them with a pair of pliers and 3 fingers and away you go a 15kg reel of Mig wire goes a looooooong way on a tig.

have a look for a Tigpen if you're having "feeding" probs


sorry for the hijack BTW Nige

If your want to use that funny threaded plug rather than a whittled piece of wood they are avalible at most electrical wholesalers as m20x1.5 is ISO conduit thread.

Righty Ho then campers

With a TIGged up AFM replacement ........with the MAT (Manifold Air Temp) sensor in it :

Click to view attachment

...And I hasten to add TIGged up by a grown up ....- not me - ta Mark and Jez



Having got this it was on to the wiring now, a couple of points :




I am absolutely useless at electrics, so,

1. If I can do this so can you..................
2. I am documenting exactly what I have done......................

It may well be that in Guru Wiring Circles what I have done is either wrong or poor standards -
but I would say that I have done it this way cos its about the only way that makes sense to me as a Electrical idiot
and as such other may get confidence from the way I have done it....or maybe not

Ok here we go :


1st HUGE F Thanks to 'Mr Fridge' for a MS wiring diagram :

Click to view attachment




Couple of things :

1st - this is a digram for colours relating to a RR 'Flapper' colour wire system,
and
2nd - this now has a 2 wire Bosch EAV Equiv rather than the RR stepper, so the wires have changed from 4 to 2 orange and black as earth

3rd - a Black "DOT" on the paper means I have fitted at least the base end of the wire



I am making a complete loom up to run MS so here is what I have done :


1. I have learnt studied and looked at this wiring diagram till I can almost draw it by memory.
This is important, ..............
I think I needed to understand why which wires go where as best I can.
If you are think "NAH" forget that look learn and study it so it makes sense
..........and you an almost draw it blindfold - it helps belive me

2. I have ordered initally (I am building a '1st loom' ....then maybe a 'finished' better Raychem one from one colour so one the 1st one you can see the exact colour wires and tracers - more later

3. I expect this to take some time.........and so should you .......... if it is to be .........
....1st neat and 2nd relaible


Having 'studied the hell' out of the above wiring diag I ordered the wiring,
I had different thickness dependant and the usage and for this I thank Ian (BBC) for his input.
On some sensor wires I could not get TWC (Thin Wall Cable ) with the correct colours so went up in size so I could get the right codes
.
As such I ended up with the following order with VWP.


MegaSquirt Wiring


PIN(S) Colour Wire What Wire Size Goes to

19 Green 0.5 To Throttle Pot
37 Blue & Pink 0.5 Fuel Pump Relay
32 Red & Green 0.5 PWM
30 Pink 0.5 EDIS Pin 3
29 Green & White 0.5 PWM
26 Yellow 0.5 To Throttle Pot
24 Slate & Orange 0.5 EDIS Pin 1 (slate yellow ?) 23 Blue 0.5 Lambda
22 Red 0.5 To Throttle Pot
21 Black & Slate 0.5 CTS
20 Red & Black 0.5 ATS
18 Black 1 Earth
Brown & Black 1 EDIS 12
Brown & Green 1 EDIS 11
Brown & Orange *2 time 1 EDIS 9
Brown & White 1 EDIS 8
35 Slate & Red 1 5 6 7 8 Injectors
34 Slate & Red 1 5 6 7 8 Injectors
33 Slate & Green 1 1 2 3 4 Injectors
32 Slate & Green 1 1 2 3 4 Injectors
Brown & Orange 2 Main Relay to All Injectors 28 Blue & Yellow 2 Main Relay & Edis Pin 6 White & Purple 2 Fuel Pump Coil Feed Lambda
BIG Brown 3 Relays Main and Fuel


If you look at the above Diagram from Mr Fridge and then the above you'll see the wire sizes and colours I ordered to make up the loom.


Right



I now have a HUGE delivery from VWP, .............
and this is exactly what I did........

...................................................so far .......................


I decided to build the loom from the engine into the 90,
so the 1st jobbie was to work out eaxtly which wires I neded from the engine into the 90.

Then once I have worked out which wires are in the engine
I will switch my attention into the cab area and work out which wires so far from the engine into the cab area
go to either the ECU Fuse box or EDIS unit realy earth etc etc .

Once I have done that I will add in the extra electrics that are cab area based eg
Fuel Pump Lambda sensor Fuses relays and earths.


So

To start with I worked on electrics in the engine area.


I split this down to start on the Pass side ie 1 3 5 7 vs 2 4 6 8

on 1 3 5 7 I have the injectors (A) on the diagram, ATS (D) CTS © TPS (E)



Panic already set in, so many wires ....so I decided to start with the 'Bank injectors'

I simply started at Injector 1, shoved 2 wires through the bulkhead Grey and Green and the feed Bown and Yellow,
I taped up BOTH ends and shoved a lable on to identify what they were,
I then did this with 1 3 5 7 and then CTS ATS TPS and then as they grew I kept zippy tieing them up
and repalceing the zippy ties each time they grew,
this way I have a harness taking shape the zippy ties are mainly either at junction points
or there to hold the loom together,

It is frightening after a short while what wires you have and the thickness of the loom.
For the injectors I ran 4x wires for the injectors and the feed as well, as these will be "Joined" close to the ECU.
For the ATS and MAT the "Earths" run right back poss to the battery cahhsis etc so another number of wires.
Again these are linked and marked with what thety are into the cab, each "Unit" into the cab is not only marked
but wound into a coil and zippy tied.

This then gave me the '1st bank', then I moved to the drivers bank.

This meant then same but for

2 4 6 8 AND Coil Pack 1 (3 wires 1 2 and feed) and coil 2 ..........so 6 wires in total

This then meant a harness from the bulkhead to each bank,
zippy tied as you go adding and replacing - but all wires maked, after a days work looks something like this :


This shows :

1 3 5 7 ATS CTS EAV (2 wire Bosch unit) and the VR Sensor (grey sheilded wire)

Click to view attachment

The the other side

2 4 6 8 Coil Pack 1 and Coil Pack 2

Click to view attachment

Zippy ties out of my ears and then back to the bulkhead

Click to view attachment


This is towards the end of the day,
but I keep re zippying (cut off the old add the new) as it grows,
this shows virtually every thing for the engine bay.

Fridge and BBC both suggested that ALL earths should be brought into the cab for a good solid earth area(s) ...............
................and this does NOT Include using the V8 Engine Block



Now.................

Next is inside the cab area,
although everything is nmarked I will next have to move the Edis ECU FP Earths Relays etc etc so as to make sense,
at the mo it is slighly frightening as thus :

Click to view attachment

It is very much '1 stage' at a time,
and also you will note the engine bay has LOTS of slack / spare cable for the 'connectors'.

My plan also is the add... say 'yellow' heat shrink
pre the rubber boot with the 'item description' written on it..............
................ie 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 MAF ATS CTS etc etc ...............
.......then add clear heatshrink over the top to keep safe........

Lots to do but.................................

I do feel I am getting somewhere now


More Next week, ..............




frankly I have had about as much 'Electric Joy' as I can take this weekend

Nige

One of the major milestones in curing my MS re-setting problems was to seperate the coil earths and normal earths, both hated being anywhere near the engine block, the resets almost stopped when I earthed the coil to chassis and the normal ms earths to in the cab (which is linked straight back to the battery, I was informed by Phil Ring wood [MSnS god] that the battery is the best suppressor on the vehicle).
The resets completely stopped when the spark plugs were gapped exactly the same with new leads.

Its coming along nicely Nige ................ like i told you ....... electrics is easy ............. you only get smoke if you get it wrong......... and mirrors are usually hung on walls.






Yes, the battery acts like like a f/off big capacitor for removing DC line ripple .................. but also a battery has not only capacitance, but also inductance and pure resistance, therefor it has C,L, & R so will therefore represent impedance (in the true sense of the meaning) to any AC signal.

Engine blocks are notoriously bad for producing 'noisy ' earths ............ signal grounds should avoid this route if at all possible, and be grounded as close as possible to the battery. LR's are also quite bad at producing earth loops ( an earth loop is where the the resistance between the main common earth and other earths varies considerably) mainly due to the method of construction and the usage of dissimilar metals ............. earth loops can give rise to all sorts of unusual and difficult to diagnose problems.








Ian

Nige
I use Spiral binding over wire bundles once they are all in place, keeps them together prevents chaffing and is easy
to remove if and when required.
ebay is a good(read cheap) place for the stuff.

Tony, as a guide, how much of the spiral wrap will do how much cable?

Lewis

Not easy to estimate, since it depends how closely you wrap it & how much you are expanding its diamter.
In most cases though i would expect 2:1 on length used.

Thanks

Another vote for Spirawrap - also available from Vehicle Wiring Products

Lewis I just purchased 20mts and have loads left.
good for flexi brake hoses/airlines/wiring EGT harness

Hey Ho

Another day spent on the 90 doing "Devils Knitting" wiring

I must admit to having just a few "Quarms", when having dragged the 90 out of the garage I peered in to see this :

Click to view attachment

This is the mass of wiring that had ended up in the Passenger and drivers footwell areas as I 2poked through wires from the engine bay. I had always worked out (and had been given advice) to do the loom in "Stages" and as such thats what I am doing.

I have now all the wires (I THINK) in the engine bay.

These are the 8 injectors, CTS, MAT, Coils 1 and 2, PWN (extra Air Valve 2 wire vs RR 4 wire - note 1st mistake when I sussed I had 1 colour and 1 black, and found that its a pulsed earth, so should be a colour and colour - luckliy I sussed this and with confirmation from BBC - Ta Ian - I changed the balck for a green and white 1st thing today). VR sensor, and Throttle Pos Sensor.

This made for a fair number of wires, these have as outlined above been positioned (with extar off cut lengths) in the correct places and a combo of tape and Zippy ties holds them in place.

I have decided to definately take the advice of not "Taping" up the loom until it runs, as many have said you'll find the odd wire that needs moving repositioning - or even adding - ie the one you "Forgot".

So, having sort of temp finished the engine bay, next was to sort out the Cab area.

I decided to do this simply.

Before adding any more wires I worked out that all the wires in the cab area either go to : ECU EDIS or one of the 2 replays.

The EDIS8 is fitted (seatbox near cubby) and the relays fitted )in the cubby) and the ECU Bulkhead rear area, so it seemed sensible to then "move the wires and group into where they are to end up ?

All the wires are taped up and marked, so some had to be "Split" and then linked together - ie ALL the feeds to the injectors (8 wires) all the injectors LHS and RHS another 8 wires, the feeds go to the realy, the injectors pulses to the ECU.

One by one I'd move wires about, retaped where I needed to and then slowly things started to look better.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment


There are then a number of extra wires needed, exc for the moment the Fuel Pump and Lamda sensors ie :

Power from the fuse box to the Fuel and Main relays (Big Browns) and Several Blue / Yellow, Slate and Orange, Pink from the ECU to the EDIs, and a few others, bit by bit I added these in, rezippy tieing and taping as I went. As I now have several "End Sections) ie Fuse box EDIS ECU RELAYS GROUNDS etc things get a little easier as I place into each area each of the additional wires, the bunble grows and it now looks more like a harness and not an explosion at a knitting factory

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

At this point I then worked through the diagram working out where each wire was, checking it started / ends correct place(s) and that its the right colours etc. At this point I also discovered that the advice I was given re not taping up was spot on - I have missed the Ignition Switched live completely out of my thoughts - to the point where I haven't even the wire in the right colour for it - never ordered it, also a earth from the Main relay and a extar wire from relay to ECU. Then there is still the Fuel pump and Lamda to wire in, but all in all thats about as far as I can get this weekend without some more bits, there is however loads more I can do tommorrow related to the MS Conversion

All in all I am useless at electrics, but for this bit taking your time and working slowly and methodically if I can do it anyone can.....more to come ....much more



Nige

I think using the spare/long wire as seat belts may fall foul of the MOT man

Great write up, Im taking notes as mine is getting there!

Nige if you find yourself short of a bit of wire of a particular colour, just shout as I have been known to have the odd offcut knocking about

Also may be ordering from VWP next week so if you need anything let me know, it'll save P&P.

Having taken pity on a mate on sunday am welding up his bulkhead I lost the morning

But

Couple of things done to move it forward.

Chnaging the Low Pressure Fuel pump to High pressure. I have a 90 with the in tank pump, this measures around 13 inches long, the RR pump is shorter over all, but as you can see from the pic the actual Pump unit is longer on the EFI vs the Carb pump. To convert take the top part of the 90s LP pump, and then connect to the range rover bottom end with the assemble that is left, the 90 has ring terminals to the pump, the RR has spade, simple nuts bolts and then back in converted from LP to HP and the right length

Click to view attachment

Also finished off the tubework to allow the dumping of the flappers AFM, this tube is around 90mm OD and has the Manifold Air Temp sensor mounted in it, plus an extra bolt helping hold it all in place when things get jiggy .

Click to view attachment

More hours in this bit of fabwork than there should be - but thats the way fabrication goes sometimes

The heater pipes also have to be joined up to the RR3.9 stylee pipes on top of the Driver rocker cover - thats going to be fun too ...........maybe next weekend now, have to go shopping for some more bits,.............

Nige

Hmmmm

Things beginning to fight me now


Had the delivery from VWP, so was able to add the missing wires to the harness, between the rain storms ,
normally these started just as I got the 90 out,
then finished shortly after I got it back into the workshop

Anyway, the harness has had all the mass of zippy ties removed and each "Core Bundle" now has 1 zippy tie for the bundle, This took some time, but the Lamda (3 wires) Fuel Pump(2 wires) and the swiched ignition are now added, the loom is looking much bigger but I really think now it is 100% complete wire wise, but until it runs I am not taping it up - as per advice from many who have done this before

Click to view attachment

Next on the list is to join up the 2 Heater pipes a la 1986 V8 90
with the 3.9 RR on the driver rocker, ....and yes they were a piggy to do.

The RR pipes are 20mm OD the heater pipes 16mm OD.
Much head scrtaching and messing about with a huge box of hoses of various shapes and IDs got me erm nowhere.
The plan moved forward when I found some hoses to get me from 20mm to 16mm (old hybrid 2nd rad hoses )
and then I twigged copper rad (House) Tube is 15mm OD.
If you add a "Coupler" this then goes to 16mm and has to boot a extra ridge for the pipe hose clip to bite around,
much better than just shoving a hose clip doing up and praying all will be ok.

Much grumbling and bending of copper pipe saw me later today with 2x pipes going from Driver rocker down from 20mm to 16mm, into Copper pipe, round back of V8 up and then joined with 2x siutable hoses I did have allowing the engine to "Flex" enough.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

With a bracket clamp (to be finished) these will be held tight in place at rear passenger rocker area,
and with a gas welder and some copper brazing rods (stronger than solder) the ends put on - cept I didn't have enough ends - so will add more to shopping list

Click to view attachment

Also need some grommets with BIG OD and small ID and a few more bits .....which I now know I need,
which I didn't earlier today, .....means I have ground a tad to a halt - ........again

Hey ho

Nige

great thread realy interesting

WTF ????????????????


As my father used to say to me when I was much younger “ I would suggest you go and measure that again” ……….. knowing that the old bar steward had just been and measured it to 3 decimal places.

OK, before we talk in English, we will get the mainland EU language bit out of the way….


The 90 heater is 20mm ………….. the barbs are 21mm (actually 21 and a little bit)


The 3.9RR heater pipes ……… known as the external pipes ……. As opposed the valley pipes of the 3.5 …….. which are both a different size ……….. again……...the 3.9RR heater pipes………… are 19mm OD (18.92) with barbs that take them out to 21mm.

You may well have something different, but I am fairly sure they all have the same part number (there is only one sort of front hose for those)


Now we talk in English ………….. go and get some ¾ heater hose and it will fit both ends ……….. just slightly tight on the heater and pretty much perfect on the steel heater pipes …………


BTW: The inside ID of the 3.9 pies is slightly over 15mm ............... those 15mm pipes would actually slide inside the the steel pipes ............ then you could have silver soldered them....

Also I have your T piece here ........... I will post it during the week






Ian

Erm ?

Scibble wibble witch wibble wah wah woo whooo

...........I'll ring you tommorow

Nige

This really is the way to go Nige - an ECU which is fully maintainable, tunable & several times more reliable that Luc-arse.

Did you consider putting a connector inline for all of the injectors & sensors. This way the plenum/manifold can be taken away easily if required for maintenance. (see my thread in members vehicles. ( I'm using a 28way Burndy connector)

We (the MS clan) really ought to pool our data on VE & Ignition maps. I still havent got an ignition map i'm really sure of. (VE is easy if you have WB O2 sensor for autotuning)

p.s can you come & plumb my bathroon for me?

Arrgh !

Not the best of weekends in 'moving it forward'.

Some of the bits I bought (Grommets) not suitable (more later when I have what I need )

Saturday amongst the massive rain storms saw me filling up an 8 Yard skip all day at home with junk and Cr*p I promised SWMBO I would shift all around the house / Garden / garage, all sorts of stuff from work we have done and finished and had left over plus a LOAD of garden rubbish .........saw me knackered.

Today ........at a later than planned start ..........due to getting a mates engine to run after he pulled the dizzy and couldn't get his daily driver working .............Hey Ho, Finally got in the garage.

From the stainless 15mm OD Tubing from Nigel T (ta matey) I remade the heater pipes in loverley CDS Stainless 316 with various ends, the one end is a whizzy bling stainless affair with ribs (Oooer) so as to give the hoses "Ridges" to stay on under pressure, then with the bends in place I had "Fun" Gluing the SS316 to the other end - Copper fitment but they are well and truly soldered on

PITA to do, but finally they are on and I'm happy with both the bends and fitment

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With some 5/8" hose clips and a bit of brackety holding the top pipe to the fuel rail and then the bottom pipe to the bracket the heater and the engine are finally once again connected up ....and will take the abuse that the copper tube worried me might well not.

Some final electric wire tweaking and tidying and drilling and tapping a breather into the back of the Passnger side rocker cover a la Hotwire Stylee (although this will have a tube running into the cab and then onto the foam filter rather than the std affair which is like a 1" mushroom dome filter on top of the rocker about 1" High - not good for wading - was all I then managed to do.


Next weekend I am planning it to run, with some luck and help ........

...............Maybe


Nige

Glad the stainless did the job Nige.

Right update

Wiring Uuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrggggh

Last couple of evenings I have been in the workshop getting the harness more ready for the weekends fun of seeing if it will run The harness in the engine bay is next on the agenda, need to fit the 8x injector plugs (AMP Ones) TPS, CTS, MAT, EAV Coil Pack 1 and Coil Pack 2, etc. To do this I have taken a fairly safe (I hope) Gamble that all the wires I need are in there at least, and that any missing / errors are in the cab and up and in the ECU EDIS RELAYS Fuse feeds areas

There are a selection of new plugs waiting to go on.

These have been looked at hard and I have bought these as a compromise to Price / qulaity / waterproofness / spares availability ..........and as I know nothing better as an electrical idiot these won :

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New Ford Coil Plugs, Complete with New terminals and rubber waterproof seals etc, original equipement, bought from Webcon about £22 the set of 2.

I also have to have a plug for the TPS (the RR / LR Original is dreadfull 3 pin white plug which both cracks and causes loads of problems) which needed to be both waterproof and small / compact for small wire, a 2 way plug for the HP Fuel Pump (needs to carry 10 amps Plus), and the heated Lamda Sensor 3 way wires plug.(10 amps plus)

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These are all from 'Polevolt' - very helpfull, go to www.polevolt.co.uk

From Top to Bottom

3 way Waterproof Plug with plugs for ends and terminals - 20 amps capacity (Heated Lamda Sensor)

Special Waterpoof 3 way Plugs and parts for fine wires (suitable for TPS etc) 8 amp capacity

2 Way Waterproof Plug with bits - 20 amps capacity (Fuel Pump)


On now to the loom.

As such my plans are to do the best job I can with this loom, with not much electrical skill,
I am fortunate that FF and John W are helping, JW late this week popping injector terminal on etc etc, and FF at the weekend.

I started by taping with harness tape (non Sticky PVC Tape) from the back of the block, just before the V of the wiring splits going into left and right hand banks. I have taped each side seperately, using red PVC tape as a guide where the various "Plugs of wires" come out of the harness.

Having done this I have a harness which is taped up and has the wires popping out where needed.
Next was to beef this up a tad and give each of the wires sticking out a bit of indepenadnat strength and decent finish out of the junction. When all is finished I will have extar protection via some spiral rap to finish, but thats far away yet...

1st I used decent Quality heatshrink, this was pushed into the harness joint, then heatshrunk, a larger finishing piece was then added over both the main harness and the joint.

Even sader is I have had some labels done for me with all the items permenant ink printed onto 5:1 heat shrink so I have a set of "Inj 1" through to 8, TPS, MAT, CTS, EAV, Coil 1 Coil 2 etc etc etc,

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Once cut these were then placed over the heatshrunk heatshrink, and heated so they fitted neatly on top,
then (I can do Bling too eh BBC ?) some clear heatshrink was placed over the top to protect.
This way I have at each wire coming out of the harness a clear printed protected identifier (well they are in real life - the digital camera may not pick it up clearly ). When the plugs are fitted to the wires they will also have rubber (ooer) boots which will cover the heatshrunk ends of the cables, the plugs and boots thus give about a decent protect and waterproofness as you can get for sensible money

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More this weekend but light at the end of the tunnel - at at the mo "No" not an electrical short

Nige

You have done a good job buy all accounts you deserve to be sat there feeling pretty smug an chuffed with yourself, seriously well done looks really professionally done

awaiting the next installment

Prob tommorrow, just got in - absolutely worn out, been in the garage on it 8.00am - to 10.20pm saturday and sunday, John White helped friday and Part Saturday, John U / Fridge been up with me working his magic most of saturday / Sunday.

It does run, and quite nicely too, been out for an initial 1st 'test drive' (John U may say 1st "NASA Launch" more than 'drive' - it do go 'quite well' ), but nearly there, ...........slight prob ..............yet to overcome

More tommorow.............

Beer and Bed shortly

Nige

I would like to clarify the slight problem seems to be very much a LR/Lucas "design" feature than a problem with the new wiring

And yes I'd say it goes rather well, the datalogging feature of MegaTune came in handy as it was hard to keep focused on the laptop when being launched towards the horion under heavy acceleration testing

Part Saturday???? i got told to p*ss off if all i was going to do was stand there and take the p*ss!!!!!!

Still - got to beat JU's truck with a large hammer which was rather satisfying.......(yes really!)

Jon

Hmmmm

All true

The only time he wasn't taking the P was when we gave him a big hammer, a lump of Fridges LR and my anvil to play with

Nige

Here's the link to the problem we're having

Righty Ho then - small update

Basically last weekend was spent (and Friday Night) "wiring things", whilst this may seem no big deal to many to me its moving well twards my worst nightmare - I don't like wiring - I don't really understand wiring - so when I do it I have to pay special attention to not screw it up to what I am doing.

As such a Friday night from 6.00 to 9.30PM, and then a saturday and sunday 8.00am to 10.30pm means my brain was well a truly scrambled. But a huge amount was achived, and as I said if I can do it so can you. OK I had some help from Jon White (Crimpmaster Guru) and Fridge (Megasquirt Guru), and this has svaed me a fortune on redoing things (crimped badly etc) and to both of them and Ian G (BBC) I am very very gratefull.

I was trying to ensure that I had done as much as I could for them when they turned up, so for JW the engine bay was ready to crimp when he turned up, amazingly 8x injectors, coils and TPS along with MAT and other bits took JW near 3 hours to do, but nice they are :

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The extar Heat shrink is for when the loom is taken back ioff when everything is finished and taped up, this heatshrink is glue linned and will "Seal" the joins and joints. Then there was the TPS - the std RR one is dreadfull, this is a IP67 waterprrof plug and socket 3 way, as oper previous post. The wires are crimped on, the little seals being pulled up higher onto the wire, then the wires crimped are pushed into the housuings, then the seals pushed down and seal around the plug / wire entry. Fiddly but lovely plug and socket and not a fortune. this one is rated for 8 amps so more than enough, but a similar size to the std bit of open to elements junk. Heatshrink will be give an extar tweak to seal again when off.

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The MAT also done, AMP Injector plug size and type:

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Then early Staurday before Fridge arrived I cracked on grommeting . The idea here is that for instance on the fuel pump I am using another IP67 plug and socket - 2 way, prob here is removing the loom. I wnated it so I can get the loom off, so all the plugs must come through the gromet holes. I finally sourced some gromets, these are 35mm OD with 8mm ID

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Some more wire tidying so as to have the wires to be crimped / soldered in the right places :

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Then Mr Fridge turned up. People say I can't be that bad with electrics, Jon U saw that maybe I am when he mentiooned "Solder", "Yep I have some". Luckily he brought his own

His - 0.4mm Fluxed wire solder

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Mine - 6mm Plate wire solder

Anyway onwards we went

I continued in the engine bay, connecting up everything I could water into engine VR sensor on, engine loom tidyied up and zippy tied in place meant all lengths inside were where they should be.

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The MAT bend will need coating at some pint as its a combo of low grade stainless ord steel and other bits !. The whole assemble is held with only 2x hose clamps at each end, so I made a clamp on the throttle plate which bolts the tube to it, this means it will stya on !

Fuel pump done with waterproof plug and socket :

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Relays up into cubby Box 1 is Fuel Pump one is main, the other is a spare with the wide band calibration button and led glued to the base of a relay base, this has another waterproof 2 way plugs and socket, and can be removed when not in use

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Later in the day then saw the ECU Plug trimmed and beautifully soldered By Fridge, with heatshrink then applied to each pin, some more heatshrink on the outside brought the wires togther, and into the plug cover, I HUGE grommet I obtained means that I can shove the MS Box into a waterproof box, and have this big grommet as again a means to remove the harness fully if needed - box on order and the MAP blue tube (hate silicon but is fits into the MS box perfectly the balck stuff doesn't

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some tidying up whilst fridge did some black magic on the MS ECU

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The the EDIS got connected up and the VR as well,

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and the earths kept growing

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But bit by bit it comes together - ALL the sensors have had the earth run back to the MS ECU, then 5x earths go down to the battery alone with the other earths such as EDIS etc

Heatshrink and proper battery ring terminal, also the Lamda NB and WB plugs are in here waterprrof, and the one that is the WB has a "False" plug in to keep clean when not in use :

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And then the wires to the fuse box, Main Relay / Fuel Pump Relay and the damned dratted White wire which is the cause of the issue at the mo

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We had a minor issue with the starting - 1 coil had a wire the wrong way around, quick swap and all 8 fired, Fridge checked the Laptop readings and the File BBC had sent me along with my Ignition Map meant it gioes better than ever, and thats without any tunning which is to come.

It runs a tad rich, but better that way than lean, a blast around the roads near me saw big grins for both, Fridge has wanted me to Squirt this for Years

Should have listened to him earlier

NOW, if we can just get it to switch off !

Nige

Nige...
I read this in awe and admiration.... A great job well done, fantastic write up and the only problem is you have to drive it around 24/7 stopping only for fuel !!!


Well done matey, looks fantastic.

Neil

Credit to Nige for the job he's done on the wiring, for a guy who hates wires he's made a damn good job of it. Many LR owners think scotchloks are pinnacle of electronics I still have nightmares about all that lovely wiring terminating on two crappy old GLASS fuses but that's for another day, probably the day after he tests the wading depth with MS'n'EDIS

And yes Nige, I like your new sig almost exorcised the prince of darkness, and now at least we've exorcised clockwork engine management too

Loverly job Nige and all who helped you.
this series of threads will be a huge help to anyone doing the same.
Good work.

Right Then, small update :

1st A HUGE thanks to (in no particualr Order - Bill Shurvington (not from this forum - but a watcher - and a Megasquirt / Electrical Guru, Fridge, and BBC (Ian Guildersleeve).

They all burnt a large amount of midnight Oil for me on the "Not Stopping" problem - 1st a hunt for the factory resistor was called for (dashboard Apart big time) but then Plan B emergered.

All suggested and agreed on me fitting a Diode, this is Star Trek country for me now, .......................
so what appears is simply what I was told to do, I know nothing, .....I have just followed their knowledge and done the following :


You will need a Diode, a 1N5402, this was chosen cos

1 - It was free from BBC
2- Its what he had
3 - Being apparently OTT meant it wasn't as delicate as say a 1n4001 -
which equally would have done but has tail wires like fuse wire

(these can be obtained from weither RS Components or Maplin electronics etc - About 15p !)


Here is the item :

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This is to be placed in the alternator sensor wire,
for me the Thin Brown and yellow, this is basically to replace the wire, ...................not to be soldered in line with it.

Having cut the wire I was going to solder on some wire and have 2x spade terminals, ........
then I decided not to and solder it into the loom as a permenant fitting - after all if it fails I'll know - the 90 won't stop !

So, I had some whizzy joiners - these heat shrink on the to ends - the diode and the wire and then it has some solder inside that melts and flows around it, this is the short end to the alternator.
The diode needs to be fitted with the grey band towards the alternator and the other end towards the 90.

I then did the other end onto the 90, and added a cut off zippy tie for some strength and support / bulk and glue heatshrunk the whole lot together :

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This then did the trick, starts, runs, and stops when you turn the key off - Thanks a million all concerned.


A Final heavy duty tidy up under the bonnet, and inside too, amazing how many tools were now in the 90 !
replaced snorkel, coils packs switched around after Jon White whizzed over and swapped the 2x wires around replace bonnet etc etc etc :

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I then had to put my entire dashboard back together which took quite a time,
Then a tidy up of the tunnel covers, floor mats and fuse box cover and some trimming and reshaping and fiddling so all fits neatly, .........again don't forget this will all be coming out later to be loom taped up and all the zippy ties removed :

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A Blast around the area showed all ok and no visible leaks, the MS connected to the Laptop similarly showed (to my very limited eye) everything working as it should ish.....so you might think thats the end of this thread ?




Nooooooope

Tuning Now.

The engine actually doesn't run that badly,
The ignition map is probably right as this was done when I megajolted it back on the rolling road when the engine was behaving itself, but now I need to tune up the fuelling Maps which are nicked from BBCs MS Engine and then the amounts "Upped" by Fine Guestimate to a bigger cubic capacity - ie this one.

As such I think

1- its running rich, more so maybe a lower revs and tickover
2- on start up it seems very lumpy / rich and unhappy
3- once warmed up all settles down but smells rich

As such I need to use the MS capabilities to tune,
At present the 90 just has a Narrow band Heated Lamda in the Y piece of the exhaust,
but I also have a Wide Band Innovate LC1 with all the wiring now in place for analysis and tuning work.



First I will outline my knowledge on WB and NB Lamda / Megasquirt tunning :

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Ok, worked it out then



So, I have a load of stuff printed to read up and try to learn, and am hoping that maybe those who know -
ie Fridge and BBC may care to add a blow by blow a-z simple how to guide ??

If not I'll be back, ...............

Well, I'll be back anyway, just may take a time........................



In the meanwhile I have a very useable V8 90 once again,
so far I am seriously impressed, even without the tunning and fine fettling it runs better than ever before

Yippe Dooo.......................and now some reading

Nige

Doesn't run that badly... Don't some people make you laugh .

Having seen this very nicely executed project this afternoon, I think if most of us had it running half as sweetly as it does already, we would be over the moon.

A great job Nige and thanks again for your generous assistance - watch this space