Hi All,

Well, this is the Proper thread

If you are going Eh ? ...then read here : 1st April Complete twaddle and Forum Wind Up Thread

This is now the true Post.





Hi All,

I have had a prob now for some months.............. (no not that sort of prob the cream cleared that up : )

The BHP and Torque 'on tap' means that when and if I air down my tyres off raod for grip to say less than 20 psi (which is not low enough)
I simply find I pop a tube......
What happens is that when say the 90 grips on a root or rock ......and the loud pedal is pressed ......the tyre grips ....the engine delivers
and the BHP and Torque kick in...and then the tyre spins on the rim and the tube goes "POP" and thats that wheel screwed for the day

Last year at the Mike Wolfe Challenge I did 2x tubes setting out and 1x on the day,
apart from being expensive its getting silly as it makes me leave the pressures to 22+ PSI or accept the tubes are 'lunch'

I have looked about and considered the options, they seem to me to be :

Option 1.
Single Outer Beadlock Rims

Pros
Cheap(ish)
Easy to get in UK
Sort of pretty much sort out the problem

Cons
Illegal for raod use (confirmed with VOSA via 2x chats - breaches C&U regs)
Insurance company refused if fitted any cover



Option 2.
Staun Air System

Pros
Does what is asked of it
Easy(ish) to change a tyre if needed


Cons
Price - they are not cheap
Pig to fit (so I am told)
Can suffer from puncture
Drill 2nd hole and Pig to fit


Option 3.
DOUBLE INTERNAL Beadlock rims

Pros
Does exactly what it says on the tin
VOSA Road Legal .....and Insurance OK ....as they are in effect a run flat slpit rim

Er..thats it

Cons
The cost...oh F me the cost even with the $ to £ exchange rate
HUGELY Time consuming to fit (32 bolts per rim and some Frigg*n about
UK limited if you wnat real decent quality (I have tried Matt Lee........ stopped
hmmmm......SFS ?...... I was just 'hugely unimpressed' (as others are) .....with service / .....and potential qulaity)
Oh,,,dfid I mention The Cost ?
Time from order to delivery

BUT.................

Having considered all of the above I have gone for the STAZWORKS DOUBLE Internal Beadlock system.

Thanks to Jez who was talking to John at Stazworks re Mouse, I was able to add to his order for a set of DBL rims.
These now when fitted means no more 'tube lunching', no more mud filled rims,.....and worrying about this happening,this post now explains :

• What is a DBL Rim ?
• Where is it from ?
• How does it work ?
• How do you go about fitting it ?
• What does the finished item look like and how is the quality ?

I can say that even with the $ to £ exchange rate these are NOT cheap,
in fact the cost of 5x of these may exceed many of the £s Value of some 4x4 at playdays,
this is NOT a cheap option, ................
don't even think that, but, it you want tyres to stay on the rim, 100% of the time unless trashed - then these are the jobbie.

If you read on you have been warned

I ordered a set of rims just before christmas - I run 34 x 10.50 x 16 Simex JT2s

This is importnat as the "Donut" is made to the rim size and the tyre size and type and side wall thickness re clamping forces,
this means that unless I change the inserts I am limited to tyres that have a similar side wall thickness to the Simex,
for me this is not a problem,
I will always want a hugely agreessive Off Road Tyre like the simex,
many of which share the carcass dimensions, .............
........even then the donuts are not spendy to replace if required.

The wheels I have and ordered where :

7x16
95mm Backspace
Cold rolled rock ringed
Press centres
Stylee 30
Coated black

Basically to explaing the above :

I went for 7x16 to give the thinest "Profile"

95mm backspace....
This means place the rim outer edge down on the ground,
place a straight edge across the back face of the rim,
and measure DOWN the the face the the centre of the wheel which would be the part that makes conatct with the hub face of the studs - that is backspace.
I chose 95mm as this is on a 7x16 rim the most offset you can have and just about (if trimmed and tweaked) clear the arches on a 90)

8x16s are "Fatter"and mean less lock, but it does mean I can't go much wider than 10.50 inches on these rims - thats fine with me tho

Cold rolled rock rings
The edge of a rim is prone to damage when you hot a rock roor or something really hard.
This can cause the thin rim edge to deform,
and then your in to a work of Sh*te beating it back out and trying to get it true again.
CRR are basically a big lump of round bar (BIG) rolled into a 16" friendly ring and welded and then ground back ........so you have a HUGELY strong wheel rim edge.

Pressed Centres
Rather than a flat piece of plate as the wheel centre (A LA 'SFS') welded into the rim a pressed centre adds a HUGE amount of strength to the rim,
so I opted for these, being a Tart I also thought they looked nicer so 2 reasons

'Stazworks' (who supplied these) www.stazworks.com
do a huge range of stylees, these were just the ones I thought were ok for me,
and also Bl**dystrong too, the 2 parts of the rim are 6mm each, .........
that means when the 2 come together and are bolted to the hub that 12mm strength

Coated ?
well for the extra cost the coating seemed a bargain,....... that and Jez said the coating works and sticks well, ......that was good enough for me.

So, I paid the money and waited.

They then were made, I had to obviously pay Stazworks, and then the shipping company, oh and shipping from the USA is NOT cheap,
then some weeks later on arival you have to pay import duty VAT and gawd knows what else and then finally UK Delivery,
as I said expect a wallet 'ding' or 5 . I also was sharing the costs with Mr Warne, (so his vapour build status does look a tad now at risk ),
interestingly we both indepently picked the same stylee

Once the wheels were delivered I was desperate to find out :

• What was the quality like ?
• Where they EXACTLY what I ordered (as measurements .....esp backspace) was cruical ?
• Where they worth the money ?

The UPS Man came ..........grunted delivered and left ..............(are all UK delivery companies as bad as each other )

I ripped open a box - and viewed the qulaity.............was it OK ?....................................................................... NO
It was more than 'Ok', ........the qulaity was bl**dy amazing Laser cut maybe but my gawd the quality and accuracy

So I decided to pull the boxes apart and 'fit some tyres'.

The double Internal locking system works on the lines as follows :

You have what is esssentially a "Split" rim,
this is a LR rim of a size which is in 2 parts, split down the centre where it bolts to the Hub.
As well as this you have a "Donut" this is a platic insert which,
when fitted and the 2 aprts of the split rim bolted up (with 32 3.8 unf bolts) means the insert exports
[pressure to both of the internal sides of the bead and jams then against both the inside AND outside beads of the rim via the tyre from the inside

The "Donut" has holes to allow air to pass, and this way you are able to air down low, very low
and have the tyre still clamped (via the donut with low tyre PSI) to the rim.
Airing down adds to grip and footprint, and low pressure of 5-8 psi can be run if wanted,
I will prob stick to 12psi to give the sidewalls more life expectancy ...........cos I'm broke at the mo now

So some pics :

Each of the wheels came very very well packaged -
the USA can show the UK and thing or 2 whwen it comes to customer service and qulaity.....
Opening the boxes showed the wheels clamped togther basically with a couple of bolts minues the 'extras'

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

This then shows the inner and outer split rim and he "Donut" and held together with a couple of bolts.
This then is the inner part the outer part and the donut in place - straight out of the box :
Undoing the 2x bolts allows the outer part of the rim to be lifted away

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Note at the edge the O ring groove, all wheels are suppiled with what is probably the biggest O ring you'll ever see (see pic !) !
The inner and outer are made as such that they ONLY go together one way (at least with this design) each piece is 6mm Steel, each piece is pressed for strength look very very strong when lined up :

Click to view attachment

The Inner and Outer seperated from the donut :

Click to view attachment

And the donut itself - a Hard semi flexiable round donut with flanged edges (Oooer Missus)

I also thought about valves for some considerable time, and did some research....
There are all sorts of valves, see pic for example below.
Long valves means more sticks out and more can get ripped off ,
the ones at the end have less than the size of a pound coin above the rim surface, and the position of the valve is better too than a normal rim...

Click to view attachment

From Right to Left TR418, TR414 and rhs TR412s

The "Bolt" in valves have no "Give" if bashed, the valve protectors with the weight added throw balance out (prob even more ) so I settled on TR412 (RHS)
VERY Short Flex Valves - used in Skylines TVRs and go carts amazingly enough,
very short but flexialbe hopefully they won't stick out too badly,
and the holes in the rims are well inboard anyway due to the deisgn

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Using the proper tool (tricky without got mine from ebay) pop the value stem in the outrim section :

The comes the tricky part - donut !

If you think about this the donut presses on the inside edges of the beads of the tyre - this means in simple terms the donut is BIGGER Than the ID space in the tyre, its a piggie to get in to place. I huffed and puffed for about 10 mins on the 1st tyre assembley till I got it, there is a kanck, as to if this is the ONLY way to do it I have bno idea - there were no instructions at all !

Basically I sparyed some WD40 on the donut and angled it at 90 degrees to the tyre, then shoved it half way through then pivotted the donut and it simply poppeerd into the inside of the tyre

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Confession time :

I did build up a entire rim - and then found I had an air leak , this was a small raised piece of the weld on the rim, prob more due to my 2nd hand tryes with bead damage rather then the rims, but the sort I simpy linished away the ridge - on all rims

Click to view attachment

Having now gotten the donut in the INNER part of the rim is placed on the floor, the O ring (greased) to keep it in place added, and then the tyre and donut gently placed over the inner part of the rim

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Press as you might the gap between the iner and out parts of the rim will be giving you a big gap - be too rough - of life the assembley up and the O ring will come out (ask me how I know this ) The answer is to buy (as I did) longer bolts make sure they are 3/8UNF (as in this case) as the qualioty is such that nothjing else will fit as more bolts get popped in)

With these longer bolts you can start to pull the 2 halfs together when you get to a point thats close enough I then shoved in 4x of the proper bolts washers and nuts and pulled the rim together closer still, removing the now not needed longer bolts, note closer not closed, the forces are huge here !

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Having done this I added all the bolts washer and nuts loosely, and then tighten them up bit by bit, rmeber there is an O ring in there and you need it to stay in place and not be crimped and then leak

Once you have done this its a fairly simple matter of doing all 32 bolts per wheel up, I use a windy gun on a low setting then went round each nut and bolt by hand and checked the tighteness - once you have say 4-6 tightened up properly its easier to stand the tyre aeemble up and work on it that way

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

1st tyre took best part of an hour, but the time I did No4 about 20 mins, but I was knackered after playing with 4x tyres rims and near 200 nuts and bolts

The with a huge grin replace the mach 5s that have been good for years :0

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment


Then repeat 4 more times

Anyway, time will tell, but hope this is of interest ?

Nige

"No Tubes were harmed in the making of this thread – one was however slightly inconvenienced"

Just need to get some decent tyres now!

Steve

You like making hard work Nige

Handy hints for next time

take the wheel out of the box, use a white pen and dot the inner and outer wheel in the centre bore, this means you dont have to think about what the alignment should be

undo the two or three bolts that hold the wheel together for transit

fit the valve

check the insert has a hole drilled through it - Ive had 1 insert that wasnt drilled (10mm is fine somewhere in the middle)

dont grease the O ring, it will fit perfectly and a lack of grease means when seated properly they stay there (work the O ring into the groove - dont just lay it on)

To get the insert into the wheel just use a ratchet strap, squash it, lay it in, little bit of soapy water and a gentle shove and the insert pops in with minimal effort

smoke fag, drink coffee, dunk hobnob (repeat).

Soap the beads, take the inner wheel and some masking tape, tape 3 bolts to the inner wheel pointing up, mount this on a bucket. plonk wheel and insert over wheel thats happily sitting on its bucket, offer up outer wheel and slide over the taped bolts (dont use washers for these 3 bolts), gentle push down and you can get a few turns with the nuts. nip these up a few mill. Grab a torch and nose between the two wheel halves to ensure the O ring hasnt shifted. Add remaining nuts bolts and washers, and tighten down, add washers to original 3 bolts, I prefer an air ratchet as its much more subtle than a windy gun.

Air it up, make brm brm noises

smoke several more fags, consider beer.

Hi Nige,

Like the new rims, how are they working out.

'm also in the market for a set of beadlocks as I never received my Mach 5's from Matt..... only waited for over 7 months.... but that's another story

Was looking at a set of rims from High Impact but the Stazwork ones would be so much nicer..... just the cost issue as you say.....

Would apprecaite your thoughts...

Regards,
Andy

Can't comment on the rims, but High Impact are highly recommended - great guys to deal with.

Cheers, Al.

Hiya

Spoke to Jez (in one of those rare Jez moments - not at work - not working on mouse - and not asleep ) to thank him for his help with my Stazworks,
I told Jez how pleased I was with the rims, the build qulaity and the attention to detail, - and nothing has changed.

I am a fussy s*d and am often disappointed with what others find acceptable, these are frankly beautifully made smack of qulaity

Can't fault them - superb

I waited near 11 months for Matt Lee DBL Mach 5s, and then gave up waiting - know how you feel
Had I have know what these were like I would have gone for these as 1st choice anyway, things like the internal O ring vs "Silicon the Mach5s together" just make the differences - your biggest prob will be chosing the design

Nige