I did CAD for 3 years at college, and am somewhat out the loop. What are peoples preferences on which program. I was mainly a AutoCAD man, but did a little solid works. Also theres no-one who whats to give me a job doing it is there.....

cheers
geoff

I currently use Pro-engineer (wildfire 2) on industrial placement and Solidworks (was version 6) at uni. Pro engineer seems to be the more robust program (far more structure way of creating and ordering models), but solidowrks is the more intuative and less frustrating to work with. Both are good all round 3D CAD programs and a certainly a lot easier to use than Ansys (not sure which version it was) which was an awful prgoram to model in.

My first preference is a pencil & paper - by far the best for sketching.

Then draw it properly in Solidworks - which I think is hard to beat. Microstation is bloody good too - and is probably the most cross compatible. It will do a better job of editing Autocad files than Autocad!

I wish one of the CNC machining companies would give you a job. Most of them advertise that they can work with cad drawings - but when it comes to actually giving them a project, this translates in to asking for 2d drawings printed on paper and work from those - which is very depressing!

Si

QUOTE (dirkthe1 @ Jun 30 2008, 10:01 PM)

I did CAD for 3 years at college, and am somewhat out the loop. What are peoples preferences on which program. I was mainly a AutoCAD man, but did a little solid works. Also theres no-one who whats to give me a job doing it is there.....

cheers
geoff

Geoff,
Hope this will not be counted as a 'thread hi-jacking'
but i will be keeping a close eye on this as it is a subject that i am very keen on pursuing, i may have the opportunity to make progress with this through work soon and would be gratefull for peoples views on :
what course?
what software is best? (if not auto cad then one that is compatable?? with it as that is the programme they are running for our client)
how much software cost?
etc etc
plus any problems i may encounter
as well as geoffs query of course, since he did start the thread....

i am pretty computer literate and am eager to learn on this front (especially as i will not be paying for the course ,) but admit that i am a virtual novice when it comes to this subject

so all comments will be gratefully digested

Dougie

Note to self..
Must fit breathalyzer to both LR4x4 password access (to stop me jumping in feet first since i have just found all the answers in the 'cad archive')
And E-bay account!

The CAD package used is very dependant on the industry or even individual company you work in.

My company uses AutoCAD almost exclusively, but some clients insist on receiving Microstation drawing files so we use that too.

Obviously, these two packages are mainly targeted at producing 2D drawings rather than solid models (although I know they both can produce solids).

What you really need to ask yourself is what output are you looking for from the software?

As a parting shot, I agree with Simon - a piece of scrap paper and a clutch pencil are the real tools of the trade. You just use CAD so someone can make / understand what you've drawn!!

I used ProEngineer wildfire 2 for 2 years at Uni... its very good, and if you get ProMechanica as an add-on you can even do a bit of FEA analysis with it.

I've also used Solidworks quite a lot, i'd say it was easier to get into than ProE, but for proper engineering i reckon ProE is the best.

At work our 'Etch-a-sketch' department use 2D AutoCAD, and for plant design we use 3D AutoCAD, which i think is crap.

2D AutoCAD is still sadly the industry standard, with the majority of our suppliers, and customers still using it as their primary CAD tool.

AutoCAD is the industry standard for 2D - dont bother learning anything else because of that fact, and of course that 2D is very last century and all companies should be looking to move to 3D

Personally i use Solidworks these days, when i say "i", i mean i am in charge of the rollout through a very large utilities company in the south (we also happen to be the largest construction company in south west too) and all of our consultants who are all big national/international design companies. The decision to go with solidworks took over 9 months to make whilst evaluating all main stream (inventor, edge, pro-e etc) and many smaller packages for their merits and pitfalls. I am of course certified in SW use and i can assure you there are plenty of jobs out there, paying quite handsome salaries/hourly rates too!

A bit of a stretch there I think! I would like to see a chippy or steel fixer work off of a 3D drawing! Most of them struggle with 2D! (Apologies to all chippies and steel fixers who do, in fact, not struggle to read 2D drawings at all )

2D definately has its place and I personally don't see it going away for the foreseable future in my (obviously antiquated ) industry.

Hmmm interesting. I did try getting a job-no one seems interested in a btec national certificate. Sadly it seems unless your willing to re do it all as an apprentiship then your no good to anyone. Although im considering doing the HNC and Computer Aided Design Solid Modelling City and Guilds 4353-03 3D alongside. Is that useful. Sorry to again high jack the thread for my own personal needs! Just i thought if i'm going to do it, i may aswell start drawing again!

and yeah, i will admit that in the mean time i have an a5 pad full of wire diagrams and endless designs for god knows what. O the joys of chopping down trees!

now im just rambling....

do i dare ask on the legality of asking wether people use licensed/unlicensed copies?

I think you are missing the point of 3D - its not about producing 3D drawings, the output from the program is pretty much the same, a fully detailed 2D drawing - however when you have 100 drawings from the 3D model, it takes 10 seconds a view, you can adjust a section with the click of a button, add a detail view in seconds, if you change the model for an engineering change then all the views update to reflect it - its about reducing errors and inconsistencies and speed of producing the drawings to the same standard and accuracy you'd expect normally.

Yes you can take it further, we issue 3D models in a viewer to site for the construction guys to check on when its not clear on a complex part of the works on the 2D's - its invaluable. We also use the viewer with 3D's for design reviews and hazop meetings.

Get a professional certification like the SolidWorks Certified Professional (or certified associate until you get the pro) - i have C&G CAD and advanced CAD but my CSWA/CSWP are much more valuable, however i also studied engineering at university too.

As for software - licenced copies are pricey (8.5K for top end SW), there are free progs available and some companies do 30 day trials. I cant advocate the use of bent software but we all know it happens. I'm lucky enough to use a "home" licence which comes with our business licenses of SolidWorks so mines legit - youll also find it much more tricky to get bent copies working properly these days too.

There are a lot of 'dodgy' copies around on the web of all the major cad applications. Most individuals and small companies really cannot justify spending 6 to 8k on a cad package - so that's why there are so many bent copies around.

The one thing they do give you is the ability figure out which one is best and to learn to use it before taking the plunge. I bought a book (which was rubbish) which included a very old copy of one of the cad packages as a freebie. There are also occasionally people selling genuine copies of old software on auction sites which stand a better chance of being legal.

Like it or not, many people who buy a legit copy of any of the packages, probably had their first experience on a bent copy. Once you've learned to use one - it's a big upheaval to move so they probably have you for life and will get their money in time.

The thing in my opinion that sets Solidworks apart from any other cad I've used is that it treats everything as a solid. A straight line is just a box with zero length in two axes. Most cad software constructs solids out of 'surfaces' - thin sheets. If there are no holes in the box, it is a solid, otherwise it is an empty box.

The down side of this approach is some operations (chamfers and corner radiuses in my experience) combined with mathematical 'rounding errors' occasionally turn your solid in to a box that is not closed. Then, unless you manage to repair the gap it refuses to treat it as a solid any more - which can be very frustrating.

In SW it assumes everything is a solid unless you deliberately hollow out the middle and such problems just do not occur.

It will export 2D views of your 3D object (for hard of thinking cnc shops) but even they will be forced to move in to 3D in the near future.

There are many companies who now have 3D printers (3D Stereo Lithography) which can print a resin model of your part in minutes. This is ideal for prototyping and making moulds for casting. Most of the grown up cad packages can talk directly to such printers.

Even thoug AutoCad has market dominance for 2D work, the Autocad 3D has not made many inroads into 3D modeling (it's hard to use and is really just a bolt on to a fundamentally 2D system).

For a qualification to be future proof - 3D is the way to go. Demand from industry may not be that great at the moment - but you know it will grow whereas 2D will decline.

I can't say for certain how 'legit' it is, but this is one of the sites who sells previous and OEM versions of CAD software at very knock-down prices. http://www.bestoemsoft.com/

Si

I'd personally be a litttle wary of the above site - they might well sell you the software cheap, but i'd not be so sure it includes the licence key. If you need the software i can give you a copy for free - however without the key you are limited to 30 days, and its the key that costs the £8K, the discs are free!!

Si,

I would say that it is absoloutely and completley not legit.......

Just as a side point the discs themselves arent really worth anything... even if I sent you a set of SW2008 premium discs you wouldnt be able to use them atall. The security (licensing) is much more ecomplicated than that.

I like SMO use Solidworks, in fact i am an Application Enginner working for the Australian Reseller now days.

Cheers
Pete

SMO,

You beat me!

Pete

Actually just to add SMO, You couldnt even use it for 30 days without a genuine serial number, which you wouldnt manage to guess!

Never tried - as you know i work very closely with the guys you used to work for so its never been an issue for me!!!

If the question is which program to go for in order to get a job as a cad designer: Catia V5 makes you rather hot property in the automotive industry at the moment. Not to say the program itself is that good, but it gives you good prospects.

Daan

It is a bit too cheap so you are probably right. You do occasionally see boxed sets with dongle, keys etc in 'redundant plant' sales for a few hundred quid which are probably a safer bet.

Si

I am a Solidworks 2008 user now and find it a joy to use, having migrated from Autodesk's Mechanical Desktop 2004 just a couple of years ago. SW is definitely the way ahead for many types of product design, and seems to be gaining popularity all the time.


For the benefit of those wondering what to learn and are looking for jobs -

A few years ago while unemployed I thought I had better learn some new CAD skills, having only used rather antiquated 2D CAD and toolmaking specific 3D software. It wasn't hard to find a hooky copy of Autocad, so I bought a book and started learning.

What I also found was that Solidworks would give a free 6 month license to unemployed bods like me. This would enable us to learn the software while looking for a job, and improve our prospects at the same time.

I'm afraid I don't know if they still do this, if they do it would be a good way to get a feel for SW. I never got as far as taking up their offer, I found a job first.

Hope this is of some use, and sorry for the rambling.


Michael

I used to use AutoCAD and Inventor. AutoCad is great for things like P&ID, deck layouts, etc.
But if you want to actually make something then there is no question that 3D is much better.
Like someone said before you just make 1 model, and from that you can extract all the 2D
drawings you need/ want to send it off for production. Should you want to update/ modify the part,
you just do it once in the model.
Nowadays I no longer do much CAD work, but the system the company I work for now uses is
Microstation. And I don't like it to be honest.

Whatever happened to Anvil? Used it a lot in the 80's, you're spoiled with modern packages.

These days in aerospace or automotive it's Catia. I've used it for getting on 20 years and thought I knew it well. Until I tried V5. And realised I'm getting old, brain just doesn't adapt so quickly.

anyone got any ideas how much a single license of solidworks would cost me?

(I may be getting a student copy from 6th form, as the license they are getting means we can all have a copy )

Not entirely sure, but it's in 4 figures I will ask at work.

Michael

Tut, tut. Not really a statement for an open forum.

Full commercial solidworks will set you back anything from 5.5K upwards per licence dependant on version.

Student versions are available but they aren't free - however its a token gesture and they are time limited amongst other things.

What i meant by the student copy was... The school is getting a certain license which means it will be on all the school computers in the D&T block + sixth form computers too. There will also be a copy given to students (6th form engineering for now) that we can use at home. but if its like the other drawing package we have, will have some features disabled on the home copy.

I use AutoCAD LT day to day, its a pretty good package thats quick and easy to use. I am pretty much self taught through talking to people who use it and just messing about with it. It drives me mad but theres no doubt its quicker to produce decent drawings than using the old Rotrings. DXF and DWG files seem to be useable between most other people I deal with in the trade, if not I use a programme I bought off eBay to create A1 PDFs of the actual drawings.

My AutoCAD copy came loaded on a computer I bought through the company I used to work for, I just kept the discs when I left

The drawing tool I use most is still the clutch pencil though, as Simon and Bish said theres nothing better for getting ideas down and maintaining the creative flow, CAD just gets in the way if you are actually designing stuff.

Oh for the days when the first half hour of a monday morning was spent unblocking the drawing pens and taping tracing paper to a drawing board...

Will

I'm guessing these get 'generated' by the unscrupulous all the time though