1991 Defender 90 Tdi. 1.41:1 transfer. 3.54:1 diffs. 2" lift kit

I have BFG 255/85 16 MTs fitted to white 8-spokes at the moment and they are getting to the point of being past their best off-road - although legally speaking and based on milage covered so far, they probably have another 30k odd miles left on them rubberwise. A new BFG 255/85 16 comes in at a little over 33" I understand.

I was looking at the Greenway Macho tyres that Bish is running on his Rangie at the weekend and considering the difference in price between them and BFG MTs. The drawback seems to be in the size that they are available.


Things to consider:

• I have had enough of the BFGs getting mud caught between the tyre and the bead EVERY time I drive in muddy/rutted conditions. Even at the 32PSI that I run them on road it still happens - not on the road you understand!
  
• I seem to be doing more and more road miles vs. off road miles.
  
• I prefer greenlane driving to "mud-plugging" most of the time.
  
• I seem to tow quite a lot, although seldom VERY heavy trailers, the caravan at a little over a tonne is about the limit on a regular basis.
  
• I am not keen to change the wheels around for a second set - EVER!

So what I am saying is that I would like a tyre which

• Offers good grip on the road
  
• Is quiet on the motorway
  
• Has good life on the road
  
• Works well off-road - basicaly must be a mud type tyre.
  
• Is more than 33" but less than 34" diameter
  
• Meets this diameter requirement without being wider than a 10.50", ideally narrower. I just do not like wide tyres.
  
• Inexpensive
  
• Is resistant to getting mud caught between the tyre and the bead - unlike the bloody BFGs!
  
• So, everything my BFGs are but without the mud ingress issue...

Have I just excluded every tyre other than BFG MTs and bead lockers? Is there any other, inexpensive, single application bead sealing system that WILL work? I am very happy with my MTs in all respects other than the mud/bead issue. I am not concerned with the numbers on the side of the tyre - other than it be 'E' marked. It is the actual, factual dimentions I am interested in.

Please make some suggestions gentlemen. No Boroncos though.

Cheers

Chris

39.5 x 18 Boggers!


it just so happens....




I'll get my coat

Why not just put tubes in them???

I've always run tubes off road for this very reason!

Jon

Thanks Jez.




I have thought about this. I am slightly unhappy about the idea for a couple of reasons:

The tyre is designed to run tubeless and the inside is supposedly not smooth enough for tubes resulting in random phantom punctures due to the tube being abraided by the inside of the tyre.

I worry about mud and foreign bodies getting forced through the tyre bead (as they do now) and puncturing the tube - although I am not certain anything would get that far in if pressure were maintained...

I do have a couple of tubes in the garage I could try. It should be easy enough to remove them again if they do play up...


Chris

If you're doing lots of road miles then a remould wont last you long. Then again they are cheap, which is always a consideration when you slice a sidewall after 500 miles....

A more agressive tread (like the macho) combined with your driving style may not be a good on road combination either...

The Macho comes in 285/75 R16 I think thats abou the size you want. Its 6mm smaller than you have now, but a little wider. Its rated to 94 Mph.

Paul

Kumho MT? Cooper Discoverer STT? Sounds remarkably like my question

No idea on an alternative tyre, as I've looked a couple of times now and both times ended up buying 255/85 16's MT's

I know what you mean about the bead and slow punctures, so do your neighbours after I was using the compressor out in the street at 7am that morning! It was when when we had the high temps too, so they all had their windows opened

The only thing to suggest there other tyre bead is northernchris's suggestion of using that glue to seal the bead. I'll have to get around to trying it some day.

Cheers

Steve

Kumho - too small or too wide

STT - only one size and it's too small

but apart from that good suggestion

Steve

Chris, IIRC Coopers still do a 255x85 r 16 in a 'mud' pattern. I had a close look at a 285x75 the other day and thought they looked quite good. Price wise I think they're also a couple of ££££ cheaper than BFGs too. Performance wise I'm not sure. I know of someone who's running them on a Land Cruiser as a daily driver and I could ask him if you'd like.

#


Ah! I searched for "tyres" before I posted but not for "tyre". D'OH!"

Chris

Cooper don't do the Mud pattern STT in a 255, however they definitely do offer the ST, an excellent halfway house option between an AT and a MT, in a 255/85x16. This sounds better suited to your needs.

Only trouble is, according to Coopers importers at Sinton tyres, I've just bought the last four 255 ST's they had in the country...!
Sorry!

Chris,


I was very happy with my first set of Bronco Grizzlys ( they did about 21K) ………. However, the second set started to break up just as they were on their last legs (about 23K) ……. In view of this I decided that I would not go in that direction. I think the final straw was a rubber block coming off on the A303 and hitting the windscreen of a jam sandwich behind me ………… I boll@cked him for being too close

After a lot of debate I am now using Super Swamper LTB in 34x10.50x16

http://www.intercotire.com/site36.php


they are available in the UK from LA supertrux …


http://www.supertrux.com/acatalog/Super_Swamper_LTB.html


The on road performance is OK ………… very comparable to the Bronco’s, but a lot, lot quieter. As they are cross plys , you get the ‘bogger hop’ flat spot when they have been stood for a while ……… but it disappears within 3 to 5 miles and is not at all aggressive ……… in fact its hardly noticeable.

The general tyre quality is first class ……… and the walls seem super tough (so they should be for an 8 ply). If you look a the specs you will see they are designed as a high load tyre ………. therefore my road pressures are 15 front and 18 rear.

I have used them in anger and the off road performance has been good so far ……. Very, very good on wet grass sideslopes, OK in mud (but we need more rain), OK on rock, and they seem to excel in loose stone, damp earth type stuff.

So far a 1000 miles has shown very little wear. Ideally we need some more rain to fully test them …………

As you know, I am a fastidious bar steward, and so far I am well pleased with the purchase ………… one word of caution (and this is not to be taken in the negative) if you do decide to deal with LA supertux …….. pm me .


Ian

Chris, How much of this problem might be a function of the rim as opposed to the tyre? Or is this ingress of mud a known MT problem? Not something I've noticed on my 750 SAGs.

Thanks Ian. The one thing that would concern me most, given the look of the tyre tread and the number of road miles I do is wear. I do not want to wear them out and never get the benefit off-road. They look a little pricey too. The size looks spot on however. Are you at FSWC? I will have to inspect them.

Chris

Good question. IIRC you have tubes in the SAGs?

I had BFG 265/75 MTs on the same rims before and NEVER had the same issue. The 255s are a newer design (with the side wall tread and, ironicly, the bead protector) and seem to suffer. I know that I am not alone in finding this.

Chris

Hi G8MUD,

I used to have this problem nearly every time out when I ran 255 bfg KM's on steel modulars.

I have since used compomotive alloys and Mach 5's, neither of which have ever trapped stuff in the bead.

You are right that the Km's are worse at it than the old ones.

Stick with the BFG's, you know it makes sense!

Tid.

Yes ………… I’ll be there………. Now I’ve got the truck fixed I’ll post the cheque.


I think the mileage that folk used to get from BFG’s is a thing of the past as the compound seems to have changed, with folk now reporting more normal mileages of 25 / 30K ish.

I have got Kumo AT’s on the jeep and they are a very hard compound …… looks like they will be good for 40K ( they get lots of M/way)………… the wranglers (OEM) only gave about 23K.

I checked with the stateside guys and they were getting 25K+ from a set of LTB’s on jeeps…….. so if they give me 20/25K then I’ll be happy.


Ian

I've had 265 BFG MTs on my 90 (and the same set of tyres and rims on the old 90) for about two years now with no problems with muck getting in to the bead. The wheels I'm using are Freestyle alloys, I wonder if it is a particular problem with the combination of BFGs and steel modulars?

As you know, I am a fastidious bar steward, and so far I am well pleased with the purchase ………… one word of caution (and this is not to be taken in the negative) if you do decide to deal with LA supertux …….. pm me .
Ian
[/quote]
I have Super Swampers on the Eagle which are getting a bit low, never realised that there is a dealer in UK, when I looked a few years ago it was difficult due to having to import yourself.
These might be a good option for Chris, although the Eagle is a bit twitchy on wet tarmac, maybe thats my right foot and 5.9 litres of V8!
I will pm you when I need some swampers, which I rate as exceptionally good off-road.
My current 255/85/16 BFG MT have the 'patented' rim guard moulded into the rubber. I have to say that these tyres have proven to be less susceptable to muck between the rim and tyre than any other tyre I have fitted to the NAS.
Dave

Dave,

I just something to watch out for if you order through them ……… it not actually a problem as such, but well warned is well armed


Ian

Mmm, think i am with rocker here, a rim problem, not tyre ,,, have ran Grizzys and BFG's

Had the same problem on the old defender, when running both disco steels, then wolf rims , but since changing to Mack's no trouble !!

i run machos on disco steels, i get the same problem with mud in the bead. id guess by the time my fronts die they will have done 20/25k, done 15k ish & about half worn. replaced the rears due to sidewall damage.
i like them, work well everywhere. but if you do slide them a lot on tarmac (they handle well when you do) they do wear rather quick.

Don't Mach5's use the wheel cut from an 8-spoke or modular, and just weld in a new centre?

I run BFG MT 35/12.5/15 which have the rim guard thingy on deep dish (10" wide) white 8 spokes. air down to 15-18 psi offroad. Had them for over a year and only had 1 air leak due to dirt in sidewall.

Great floatation over the bogs, only complaint is that the sidewalls are bit too thin & fragile (a stump went through one recently )

Chris,

I know adrian is having the same mud ingress problem on his rangie running machos on white 8 spokes.

I am running 255/75 BFG M/T's on disco steels and don't seem to have a problem - I know you are goung to say that I don't actually drive it offroad, but I do, honest

Not sure it is much help, but It would lead me to look at the rim rather than the tyre perhaps.

I have a set of disco steels here if you want to try them out?

Cheers
Mark

OK. I am not prepared to accept that the wheel is 100% to blame, too many other people seem to have difficulties with the new BFGs and my old style BFGs were just fine on the same rims. I will accept that the wheel is a factor in this though. Anyone think they can put their finger on where the problem lies? Is it the width of the tyre vs. the width of the rim - in this case a 7J?

Mark, I may accept your offer of the Disco rims on loan but I will need to borrow/steal/obtain some wheel spacers from somewhere to offer the same track as I get with the 8-spokes - partly as I like the way it looks and partly so that it is a fairer test. Meantime, I think I will try adding tubes to the two front tyres (the worst afflicted it seems) and see how they last puncture wise. I have a couple of greenlane and off-road trips coming up so we'll see.

Chris

My 265s are on 7Jx16 alloys.

My 255/85 16 BFG MT's have now done just under 12000 miles since I put them on in November last year. In that time I reckon I've only done about 350 off-road miles, with at least 300 of that green laning.

I just measured the tread and front and back are just over 14mm. The new spare is 17mm.

What do we reckon is the minimum useable tread depth off-road before there's no point in using them??

If it's 8mm I've probably got another 24,000 miles in them, if 10mm then only about another 16000 miles.

Cheers

Steve

If Exmoor Beast is running them 1-2mm is loads

Plus you now have a winch so you can let the wear down even more.

Why Taffy?

Chris stick with the BFGs and try different rims, i run MTs on wolf rim (6.5J i think) and no problems with mud in the beads (OK once it was a problem but that was my fault)

Also although they wont look right if your doing so many road miles and towing alot ATs have alot going for them, trac edge woudl be ideal then.....

[quote name='GBMUD' date='Sep 12 2006, 02:27 PM' post='83404']
1991 Defender 90 Tdi. 1.41:1 transfer. 3.54:1 diffs. 2" lift kit



[*]I seem to tow quite a lot, although seldom VERY heavy trailers, the caravan at a little over a tonne is about the limit on a regular basis.

i run the 33"x12.50 machos on my tomcat road/off road grip is outstanding wear is acceptable no mud in rims and i tow all sorts of trailers from bike to 2ton exhbition with no probs i love them