xychix Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Howly mowly, Decided to post here before I go for the angle grinder at christmas evening... Trying to replace outriggers at front of rear leafsprings on series III 109 station wagon. One bolt that holds the leaf to the outrigger could be unbolted and there after hammered right out (with a hi lift jack under te rear x-member to lift the chassis and remove tension from leafs) the other however is very stuck. The rbberish bush makes it bounce back no matter how hard I hit it. Although the nut came of I also can't rotate the bolt. It rotates about ~15 degrees when I stand on the spanner but it bounces back into its position when I get off. About to go mad with the angle grinder tomorrow (after I photographed and measured the exact position of the outrigger and additional connecting places for tub and sills, any tricks on howto undo this the non-savage way are more than welcome!!!! merry christmas to ya all!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 As the nut is off can you drift the bolt out from the nut end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Hacksaw between the eye of the spring and the outrigger. You may have to use a padsaw, an air saw would be easier. In the past I've burned the ribber out with a blowlamp, although you'll be left with the inner metal sleeve stuck on the bolt you might have enough room to wiggle the bolt out if you grind the head off. As you're replacing the outriggers can you cut across the diameter of the hole the bolt goes through, drop the end of the spring out compete with bush & bolt and then burn the bush out, the bolt and inner sleeve will drop out and you'll need to remove the outer sleeve by cutting a slit along its length and drifting it out. I've only done this sort of thing on a SWB, but you might be able to make something along these lines work, a night's sleep might help too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 24, 2016 Author Share Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) Nope, thats what I've been trying, hammering it out with a pointy cold chisel and a hammer.. not a millimeter, bounces right back as it's likely rusted to the inner ring of the bushes. Didn't remove that dampers yet, should I? Was planning to drop the axle with leafs just enough to place the new outriggers and build stuff back up. For today I'm done as I don't have proper electricity here just a good small honda generator that will just allow me to weld and 2 solar panels and 12v batteries for some internet / charging phones. Will have to wait for new sun light in the shed tomorrow. Edited December 24, 2016 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 The bolt said corrode and seize completely into the metal tubes in the bushes. Hacksaw between the springs and the hangers is the only solution. A boring and uncomfortable job, then replace the bushes and bolts with new. Done loads of them.... jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 As I don't have a hacksaw I'll use the angle grinder to first cut off the mounting points from the chassis and then try and cut it all off. ( I'm replacing that outrigger and spring mount anyways ) more on succes / failure later today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Alarm bells!!!! What have you supported the chassis with? You have said Hi-lift on rear crossmember? Unless youwant to die or lose body parts under no terms should you be working under any vehicle supportedby a Hi-lift! This is the worlds most unstable jack which is why it is good for offroad use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Missingsid thanks, unfortunately I don't have proper axle stands. My current setup: - 4wd engaged, car in 3rd gear - front wheels blocked with wood - 2 stacks of thick wood supporting the chassis just behind the front seat (on both sides) - drive axle tied up to middle x-member - lift the whole setup a little on rear x member and place a beam of wood there. By hand I cannot pull it of of this setup (yes I tried) Thanks for the big warning to me and others! Dying on 2nd xmas day under a LaRo chassis might sound like a fancy way to go but at 34yrs would be way to early! Additionally I only worked under the car with the springs still attachmed and making 'pre cuts'. Will stack a pile of rims under the rear xmember as an extra. Edited December 26, 2016 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Another thing to think about is where will the spring/axle go when you make the final cut as it becomes loose . I would be cutting through the inner one first with a jack under light pressure between the spring and chassis to ensure it doesn't close up as you cut through and grab the cutting disc, then on the outer supporting the spring in the same way cut the middle section first by plunging through with a part worn(smaller) disc then cut in from the edge each end to remove the remaining "tags" then the disc is not between the two cut edges . Anti-sieze grease is your friend on re-assembly. cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) hey steve, it's of the rear is lifted so nice that there was hardly any drop (~2 cm's). I've cut in all sorts of directions and used 3 discs then I could snap the last piece with 1 big hit of the hammer. Continued to clear the chassis. Some more cutting chopping and cleaning and the right side is ready to get back on. Just hoping I wont set the loom on fire while welding Will have to replace the loom anways as I touched it with the grinder already. Only challenge for this side is to get the outer shell of the bush out of the spring. I managed to pull the bolt+innerbush+rubber out... Without a hacksaw, as I don't have one. Making pictures of the operation and might do a proper writeup later on. Edited December 26, 2016 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Good work , a write up with pic's would be worthwhile , especially as you are working with minimum tools so ingenuity and creative thinking become part of the toolbox. cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Hammer a bolster into the split where the eye in the end of the spring turns back against the flat of the spring. This will open up the eye a tiny bit and may allow you to drive out the metal tube. I've got them out this way before. otherwise go and buy a hacksaw - they are not expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 xychix, Glad to hear that you have success, and more so to hear that you are in fact safety consious and capable, just limited in tools but not ingenuity which is really handy for LR products. Look forward to more news AND pictures please. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 First gear is the best gear for preventing vehicle movement. With the vehicle securely sat on strong blocks, I'd use the high-lift laterally to "lift" the stuck bolt out, using the foot of the jack on the empty opposite spring hanger and the toe against the threaded end of the seized bolt, but put the nut partially on to enlarge the contact area and prevent the end of the bolt being peened over and widening. Failing that, you may have to grind the bolt ends flush with the ouside of the bracket and then drill the remnants enough to clear the thickness of the bracket to let the spring drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) using a hacksaw to cut it in a little (only fir 1/3rd as the hacksaw isn't long enough) and 45 minutes of brutal hammering with a cold chisel I got the bugger out. Now back in the house for a little as my fingers and feet are frozen the shed doesn't have any heating. New poly bushes places: tip, first place both bush ends and then press in the innnertube with some grease and a simple clamb (T-bar clamb??). Some pictures of the proces (more details later) New member already welded on (more welding to do but I can already stand on it Will update this post as soon as my phone is synced to the laptop. Edited December 27, 2016 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) the setup (the hi-lift is resting there, not doing anything it's the wood that lifts the car) squeezing the bushes in: welded first lines and grinded them to check the penetration. Seems ok despite the crappy work with an old MIG1000 from FERM, very inconsistent wirespeed! Note the holes on the top. will weld an extra 3mm plate on top over the chassis rail to reenforce that area. Edited December 27, 2016 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) carp, I bought new bushes but not the bolts... can I just race to the hardwarestore and get a set of M12? M14? bolts & nuts? or are these specially hardened bolts? At paddocks the set is 2 Euro's, postage is another ~8 Euro's Edited December 27, 2016 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 The underside, was quite hard to weld, but it should hold The plate I welded over the top corner (wich was previously covered by the old outrigger and thereby quite thin) After welding I sealed all the welds with welding sealant in order to cover / close small holes and cracks I might have in the welds allowing water in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 decided to order original bolts and nuts (also for shackles and front springs) to go with my poly-bush kit. Hope they will arrive before end of next week.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 All going well by the look of it I'm pretty sure the bolts on S3 springs are 5/8" UNF , although the front one could be M16 I guess , fine if you can get it . cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Correct. No metric bolts anywhere on a series it's all imperial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jon White said: Correct. No metric bolts anywhere on a series it's all imperial. That is most certainly untrue. Series III from ~1980'ish is mostly metric. Mine is 1980's so far I've only had a few bolts that didn't fit my metric tools. By far the most seem metric so far. After hitting the second bush for hours and hours, detroying my huge vice on it and cursing and hitting my hand several times I've bought a sabre saw and cut it in 2 places to the leaf. After hurting myself a bit more it's now out! Victory. Now having a beer! Edited December 29, 2016 by xychix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 What size tool fits things is irrelevant. It's the actual thread sizes that matter. I agree a lot of spanner sizes are very close - For example..... 7/16" af is pretty close to 11mm 1/2" af is pretty close to 13mm 3/8BS is pretty close to 15mm etc...... but you will find that the correct bolts and the correct threads are not metric! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, Jon White said: What size tool fits things is irrelevant. It's the actual thread sizes that matter. I agree a lot of spanner sizes are very close - For example..... 7/16" af is pretty close to 11mm 1/2" af is pretty close to 13mm 3/8BS is pretty close to 15mm etc...... but you will find that the correct bolts and the correct threads are not metric! Again, wrong. The engine and axles have various metric fittings and even the transmission drain plugs are metric on many after 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Never worked on anything that new fangled.......Proper old landrovers are all imperial! 1978 is the newest series I've ever touched..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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