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Land rover discovery 1 200 tdi water pump


Bandog

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Put a strong anti freeze mix in the series, 200 tdi and now the water pump is dripping out of the weap hole. 

I have an option of what looks like a decent genuine pump that I have on a spare engine, or one from a local motor factors, who look after me very well, for 25 including highwayman robbery. (vat)

Please men, can you tell me if the genuine pumps have written in cast ally... "made in England" AE (R).

Thinking of the genuine one would be higher capacity, it has a cast impeller, rather than the cheapy pressed steel job. 

Any input greatly appreciated. Ta 

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Just got the old pump off and it has play on the bearing, no wonder it's started to leak. And it's a pattern part. I strongly suspect that the one from the spare engine is genuine. It's also looking like it's done very little 

The donor vehicle was a very well cared for off roader that was sold when the owner died. He spent a lot of money on it 

The viscous fan threads have a cardboard protection cover on them. My ken Barlow fan came from the same vehicle. As I said he spent a few quid on the unit and the rest of the vehicle. 

I might just suck it and see. Managed to catch most of the brand new antifreeze too, so not spending too much money. 

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The build quality of 200 Tdi water pumps is genuinely suspect now. Have a good look at the local motor-factor one. It should have a big old chunk of warrantee on it; and if it's Unipart then it may have fitting costs in that warrantee. I treat a water pump as a service part, so when the cambelt is due (every 3 years whatever the mileage), I replace the water pump. I tend to get the Unipart pump as it's well priced and because of the warrantee. I also replace the aux belts and alternator and PS pump mounting bolts/nuts and the timing chest cover bolts at the same time....

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Yes I agree. The shonky pattern parts are collapsible!  When that bearing collapses, due to it being bathed in coolant, it can be catastrophic for most oblivious pilots who drive whilst in a carbohydrate induced, semi coma. 

I check my instruments like I check mirrors! 

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I'm of the opinion that the youngest 200 is 23 year sold. Prior to it being in my ownership I have no idea how good the maintenance was. So I like to replace stuff; always for good parts. So if I'm doing a wheel bearing set, I know I've got a stub axle, gaskets, half shaft, oil seals, tab washers etc. I've also got a recon'd calliper, disc, flange bolts, stub axle bolts, shocks bushes etc. That way My vehicle is a proper rolling resto

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Man after my own. 

All I need now is a spare series transfer box, another lt77 (I have 2 already) and I just about have everything for it to outlast me. 

I may even go as far as an exchange turbo to put on my Turner block and pistons. Done the cylinder head myself. 

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I had the cylinder head done by the local engine specialist http://hamlinsengineering.co.uk/contact-us/

They did a great job - ported, swirled, valve work, light skim. Worth every penny. Some mild tweaks and I'm seeing useful improvements on the rolling road without stressing the engine in any way

Might I suggest you find a decent rad - in copper and brass - and get it re-cored by Arrow Radiators. None of the that cr&ppy plastic and alloy stuff

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It has a series rad in very good order, which is over engineering at its best because they were designed to run static, without over heating. 

I am running a mocal 16 row oil cooler separately fits nicely in the series 3grille, at the side of the rad, smack bang in direct airflow. Ken Barlow is there to over act when things warm up in traffic. I wish I could send pictures from this phone but they keep saying too big??? 

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This is true. It's commonly not set up correctly. Ken Barlow kenlowe, old hat now because of affordable Chinese import fans. Not that they are better, they are not, no where near. 

Common mistakes with the stat settings are the probe gets fitted to the top hose, when in actuality the bottom hose is the correct place to mount the temperature probe. Because...  If it's too hot down there then it really does need to start flapping. 

Honitonhobit do you know about oil temperature variations in the 200tdi? 

I would like to know exactly how my mocal cooler compares to the disco oil to water coil tube job in the standard rad. Or do I consult morpheus (nick)

???

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And now we get down to reality, and not folklore. Regarding temps. The myth that the 200 is some sort of unusual "cold running engine" wt...  ...??? 

This nonsense is banded around forums and land rover people a lot. 

If, both the coolant temperature thermostat, AND the oil thermostat are working like they should, the engine should provide a hot heater, and an engine temperature hovering around 88 degrees. 

The oil thermostat is very often completely overlooked. It stands to reason that if the coolant thermostat is a service part, then so is the oil thermostat. My oil temperature comes up, and thermostat opens before the coolant does. This is because the turbo heats it up. Which is good news for people without a gauge. Because if the engine coolant temp gauge is saying normal, then you know that the oil is up and ready too. 

However, the truth is, that the 200 has a large capacity. So is slow to warm. 

Aluminium head also loses heat quickly. 

Honitonhobit, my thermo coupler (millennium falcon)  is also on the outlet (to rad) but I have a infrared thermometer I used to set up the kenlowe. The adjustment is set on the dial smack between normal and hot which is about 95 c at the BOTTOM hose. Like you said, they hardly ever have the need to come on.

However...  Because of the intercooler, I have a remote switch, for when it's cooking in traffic, for the sole benefit of the intercooler. 

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The easiest and best way to set up the electric fan is to use the X-Eng X-Fan, which consists of an aluminium insert that fits between two sections of the bottom hose, with a thermostatic switch screwed into that housing.  The switch has two trigger temperatures to two separate terminals, so the low trigger can activate the main fan and the higher trigger activate a second boost fan if fitted.  It's very unlikely you'd need a second fan, just a 14" fan.  I'd recommend a manual override switch to activate the fan in the unlikely event of thermostatic switch failure and so you can preempt temperature rises when slogging up a mountain in hot weather (easier to keep the engine cool before it gets hot than to try to cool it down while working hard).

For oil temperature, I fitted one and wound't recommend anyone bothers - if you have a decent Tdi with a good condition Tdi rad and fan, the oil temperature will be fine.  However, if you're set on it, then the neatest solution is to use an MoD spec SIII instrument cluster (fuel, coolant temperature and oil temperature) and the associated sender units.  You'll need to change the engine's coolant sender unit to the type matched tot he gauge and use the adaptor from a 19J engine to be compatible with the head, and the oil temperature sender (in the sump of a SII or SIII) fits where the big brass blanking plug currently resides in the 200Tdi oil filter housing. 

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I've had a fair few 200's - I did work out how many once, but have since forgotten

I've never experienced hi temp issues - although my RRC with the 150+bhp 200Tdi in it did run warm once when the thermocouple failed; but that was going up Holden Hill at 80mph. This RRC had a Racetech oil Temp and Pressure gauge fitted. I don't remember the oil ever going over 90... But I tended not to use the gauge much because of it's position.  I'm a great fan of a decent pressure gauge though - you can tell when your oil is getting too warm

The only one of the lot I ever experienced annoying slow warm up issues with was my 100" Hybrid. My present Disco is warm and toastie within 3 miles of the house and produces decent heat no matter what. I do have a genuine radiator cowl for a 200 Disco though - so land rover di accept it could be a problem...

I used a couple of smaller PC cooling fans (hi flow) on a mount behind the intercooler on the 100" - no thermo switch - just on and off....

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I have stack gauges, and the original manufacturer's volt meter. 

Egt, oil p, oil temp, boost. All come with the appropriate sender. Snagger I have a series rad and a mocal oil cooler. 

The problem with the electric fan is, that over speeds of 20 mph, it's a waste of time it being on. The incoming air far exceeds any air the fan could dream of moving. This is why the viscous is the tool for towing a caravan over the alps, they move air like a chinhook troop transporter.

The double thermo coupler for the bottom hose sounds like a much better deal though. Like I said, my manual override switch is for hot summer days, for the intercooler only, just to prevent heat sink. Mine also has a louvre directly above the turbo and inlet manifold for an easy escape path for unwanted hot air. It's been tested by Boris Johnson lying face up under the engine bay, who produces more than the average space shuttle launch. 

150 hp 200 honitonhobit?  Interesting, tell me more please? 

Edited by Bandog
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DSC_0519-980x551.JPG

I shoehorned this lot in with Ken Barlow just visible in the background. Oil cooler on left, the largest intercooler I could find. There's a air horn compressor in there somewhere too. Series 3 way more scope than 2 for space. 

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15 hours ago, Bandog said:

True. Unless you put the radiator where the defender or puma is. 

The fan sits below the cross member, not just the rad, so its position is useless.  I suspect the fan would hit the cross member or at least the brake lines under certain circumstances.  It's not an option.

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One of my 200's was in an RRC. At the time I was a contributing journohack for Total Off Road and wrote a piece on Allisport. Andy fitted a full width cooler and did some pump tweaking. It ran well - but there were issues, especially with low end off boost fuelling. So I went to Power-crazy Motorsport in Devon, who at the time were fooling around with XUD9 engines in rally cars. They tuned the pump and tweaked the turbo but on a rolling road - so it was very fine tuning. We also removed the full size intercooler as it was causing problems (simply too big unless I went the route of a higher output turbo). We fitted an Allisport 300tdi cooler designed for the Discovery auto. About 50% uprated. It ran 150+bhp and 265ft/lb

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Awesome!  My bank manager would not honour a mortgage for allsport or allard or allied carpets. I learned about engine tuning by reading books written by David Visard. Apart from the odd quirk with A series engines, there all much of a muchness really. 

Interesting honitonhobit, thanks 

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Dave Vizard was a bit of a hero of mine in the good old days. His flow bench techniques were very useful.

The thing to remember with a 200 or 300 is that you will always be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Except maybe with the 300 EDC lump. I find it's better to make them run as well as the factory intended, then start tuning works. And don't use an after market boost pin

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