Cornish Rattler

OT: Sad day today

69 posts in this topic

It adds humanity to the technical side. You'd have to one sad individual to live life with nothing but technical input and output. A forum should have humanity - but controlled

Matt's suggestion (note that so many good things come form the southwest) is a great idea.  

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We have a must be of benefit to members rule that permits threads while not strictly Land Rover are of benefit.  I don't see a issue with purely technical forums either. If you want something else it's very easy to start a group on Facebook.

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1 hour ago, honitonhobbit said:

It adds humanity to the technical side. You'd have to one sad individual to live life with nothing but technical input and output. A forum should have humanity - but controlled

Matt's suggestion (note that so many good things come form the southwest) is a great idea.  

Agreed, especially about the SW bit.

In the days that Faceache and Tweelookatme are the norm, a forum is quite old school really. It is definitely the preferred option for a technical forum though! It must be difficult for younger chaps who have only ever seen social media, and it transient nature, to adjust to a forum, where things live on.

I'd suspect a open topic forum would a) ease people through that transition b) bring the forum more into line with what is expected of the rest of the world.

Feels like the world has moved on a bit, and the forum got left behind -I mean look at the rumpus over the activity feed... it is the norm just about everywhere else... yet some users took serious exception to it :(

Anyways, if anything good can come of this topic, then I will be very pleased :)

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The subject of off topic posts has been discussed many times and that's why there is a forum charter. If the sad loss of a loved pet is allowed, then why not anything else that someone decides to post. Where is the limit and where would moderators or admins draw the line ? This whole website was created for the sole purpose of technical advice. The old LRE website was closed and the majority of the members of that website came here voluntarily. Cornish rattler - I know your pain. I've sat here and watched my last dog put to sleep and it was terrible. I don't mean to target you, but this is not the place to post about it. On Monday of this week I looked into my dead daughters face and I won't be starting a thread about it as it's not the place to do it.

 

 

Les

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Perhaps the forum charter is in need of review (note, not necessarily change, but review).

 

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I agree, things change - I think 'review with an intention to upgrade'

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How could it be reviewed. this is a technical website and nothing else.

 

 

Les.

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Well I would disagree there :)

 

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The mods of this forum have obviously been aware of this thread as have the A&M team generally.

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I also offered before to moderate a new off-topic section. It was decided then by the A&M team not to go ahead with that plan.

I will not offer to moderate again.

And because the decision was made NOT to have an off topic section, the powers that be must understand that it will be inevitable some OT content will appear.

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To be honest the rules are contradictory anyway, rather than the heavy handed approach here mods could have simply asked Graham quietly to stick to forum rules and add OT to the title (or done it themselves) which would have avoided all the unpleasantness that followed.

 

Quote:

Rules and regulations

Rules and regulations have deliberately been kept simple and have been left to 'common sense' (snip)

As this is a Land Rover forum members are expected to keep the majority of their posts about Land Rovers or subjects closely associated with them, their use, repair or modification. Some off topic posts are acceptable but in this case the post title should begin with the letters 'OT' as an indication that they are not Land Rover related.(snip)

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I expect you have Steve :).

The subject of what is or is not allowed - separate chat forum, etc - are most likely to bleed across to the rest of the site, etc, as you know,  This subject has been discussed to the death many times. For those of you that are following this thread - off topic posts cannot be moderated, as one thread should then fairly be allowed as any other, and removing one will obviously be considered as unfair. There can never be a members right to post something off topic by right of time on the site, number of posts, or anything else. This has always been a technical site, and that fact is why it is here and why there is such a wealth of completely free information available.; You bust it - someone will tell you how to fix it. Someone else busts it, then there is undoubtedly someone on here that can tell you how to fix it. Your mental health, sad death of a pet is very sad, but please consider the effort it required to create this website and what it stands for - that has (and should not) ever change. In my opinion :)  A&M team - please don't lock or remove this thread unless there is no other reasonable option.

 

 

Les(grumpiest person on here :) )

 

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1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:

Well I would disagree there :)

 

And once again I would agree with you

Primarily it is now a technical site - with added humour and humanity, with people who are old friends or not. It was founded on the burnt out remains of a forum that was based upon a mix of social, technical and anorak. It will never cease being technical so there is no need to fear off topic posts. In fact what is off topic? I own a Land Rover based product, it's a 4x4 and I have to fit my three dogs in there. More LR content than fitting a 606 into a scratch built buggy. More content then a discussion on what is the best 4x4 pick-up or best insurance for Europe - yet those very posts have provided huge amounts of useful information, interest and entertainment. Rattler lost his dog. He can't express his sadness to his mates down the pup, so he comes on here and does it. No problem. There is more to this world that Land Rovers and 4x4's but what if your life revolves around both of those subjects and you want to talk about something that doesn't? Nige's injuries (and mine - but there was LR content in mine) need a place. Camping needs a place. Kids and 4x4's need a place

I'll pick up Need 4 Speed's offer and I'll run with it

 

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20 minutes ago, GW8IZR said:

To be honest the rules are contradictory anyway, rather than the heavy handed approach here mods could have simply asked Graham quietly to stick to forum rules and add OT to the title (or done it themselves) which would have avoided all the unpleasantness that followed.

GW8IZR - I'm not aware that any mods have been heavy handed in any way. The only member of the mod team who has posted (prior to me) is Happyoldgit, who has merely said that the mod team are aware of this thread.

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2 minutes ago, geoffbeaumont said:

GW8IZR - I'm not aware that any mods have been heavy handed in any way. The only member of the mod team who has posted (prior to me) is Happyoldgit, who has merely said that the mod team are aware of this thread.

shoot me for a missed comma ...

 

To be honest the rules are contradictory anyway, rather than the heavy handed approach here, mods could have simply asked Graham quietly to stick to forum rules and add OT to the title (or done it themselves) which would have avoided all the unpleasantness that followed.

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3 hours ago, Les Henson said:

I expect you have Steve :).

The subject of what is or is not allowed - separate chat forum, etc - are most likely to bleed across to the rest of the site, etc, as you know,  This subject has been discussed to the death many times. For those of you that are following this thread - off topic posts cannot be moderated, as one thread should then fairly be allowed as any other, and removing one will obviously be considered as unfair. There can never be a members right to post something off topic by right of time on the site, number of posts, or anything else. This has always been a technical site, and that fact is why it is here and why there is such a wealth of completely free information available.; You bust it - someone will tell you how to fix it. Someone else busts it, then there is undoubtedly someone on here that can tell you how to fix it. Your mental health, sad death of a pet is very sad, but please consider the effort it required to create this website and what it stands for - that has (and should not) ever change. In my opinion :)  A&M team - please don't lock or remove this thread unless there is no other reasonable option.

 

 

Les(grumpiest person on here :) )

 

 

Ok Les I'll bite - albeit very reluctantly.

Firstly my sincere condolences for your loss.

I'm not going to get drawn into the off topic argument on this thread, as you say it has been done to death umpteen times in the past. Quite frankly given the subject matter I feel this is just not the thread for the issue to be raked over yet again, I just don't feel comfortable doing so - sorry. Had it galled so much by far the preferred approach would have been to make one or all of the A&M's aware of the concerns via messenger. We would have course listened, as we do to the concerns of any member, and acted if required after discussion in the A&M section.

Steve [who has constantly served on the A&M team without breaks virtually since this forum started]

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Wow.

Just wow

:(

Not the way LR4x4 likes to be thought of.

RIP little doggie....

If feel quite depressed having read this thread..no I'm not moderating it either ...

Nige 

 

 

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17 hours ago, honitonhobbit said:

 

I'll pick up Need 4 Speed's offer and I'll run with it

 

Well me also... I'm fairly sure I've offered in the past, but hey :)

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I understand losing a beloved pet is a sad time, I understand why someone who has lost a close family member may not want to view posts of that nature on forum that is for land rovers and I understand how people may view the various re-actions. 

Hopefully we can all look to see each other's point of view.

The fact reading this thread is a bit depressing is in my view one of the reasons we shouldn't have content of this nature. Yes people need support in tough times but there are more suitable mediums than this forum.  

 

As for the off topic section  just to be clear the ask is here that this techical Land Rover forum needs an area where we can post things that are deliberately not technical nor Land Rover related ? Is the internet so short of places where you can post non Land Rover non technical content that we need a section here ?  Can't we make a Facebook group and just point at that ? You want some banter and to post more varied content go and join that.

 I think the very specific focus of this forum is one of its great strengths and any move towards a more general anything goes Facebook environment diminishes  that.  

Can we get back to talking about reliability issues and discussions on how much of a sell out the new defender will be please ?

 

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Pete every other LR forum has an OT section. Why can't we?

Its all well and good saying this is a technical forum blah blah blah.... Well maybe it shouldn't JUST be a technical forum.

Just wtf is so evil about LR4x4 having an OT section? Please enlighten me. I just don't understand.

Here is the point some just don't seem to be letting stick between their ears: If the majority of the A&M team persistently fail to start an OT section, they need to accept that OT matter will appear. It's as simple as that.

Now just what don't you get about that??

We aren't forcing people to post about these things, but nor should we ban them from doing so ffs...

 

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I'm fine with way OT posts with no benefit to members being posted and then taken down by the admins. 

OT such as a garage build I am fine with staying up.

If every other LR forum has OT section, why not just join them?  You want land rovers and off topic, they have it why not have an account there and use that to post off topic posts to Land Rover minded people ?

what is evil about OT?

www.facebook.com pretty much sums it up for me.

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If you have a facebook group, all you do is point people away from your website, not good, at all.

Plus there are people like me, who refuse to use faceache unless I absolutely have to, then deactivate the account immediately afterwards.

I think the rub is still, that whilst this is a technical resource, it can also be other things. I guess it is up to the A&M team to decide what they want, if anything, to do about it. I'm not suggesting a free-for-all type section, but somewhere that allows a bit of natter would always be good... I mean look at the 'bucket' threads, they keep resurfacing, and they are not technical, land rover related, and in some cases of no benefit to the members, aside from providing a giggle.... yet they are allowed ;) 

BTW, assuming that posting it in the Defender section could be classed as 'vehicle-ist', you know other members of the LR family of vehicles also include dog owners :P;) 

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Wow Pete. Glad your not A&M.....

You mention OT posts not being of benefit to members. No one is forcing you to read them are they??

 

Les: See what your original thoughtless post started?

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As an aside, rightly or wrongly [as I'm far from perfect - just ask my wife] I have added "OT" to the title of the original post.

 

 

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All this bickering and unpleasantness is probably a good demonstration of why an OT section isn't of that much benefit!

The lack of arguing about politics, rustproofing outfits, the benefits of certain food types etc etc is why I spend most time on here. LRO Forum periodically rips itself to shreds over such issues and is now virtually dead. Landyzone is an unpleasant place (although has some excellent tech content at times). For LRO and Landrovernet, membership appears to have consistently declined (well posting certainly has) despite the presence of an OT forum. Having said that, the D2Boysclub forum has an area for chat and seems a failry happy place (prefer here personally)

This place on the other hand seems fairly stable. Personally I think the current balance is just right. I've pestered Steve a lot about locked threads in the past, but haven't in the last few years and i think its fine as it is.

I didn't mind this thread appearing, but wouldn't have posted on it or posted similar myself but each to their own.

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