What SIII Chassis reinforcement if any?

[abosely]

What reinforcement, would be useful for a Series III SWB? It's down to bare metal and getting Richards Chassis One Tonne dumb irons, One Tonne forward rear spring hangers, under engine cross member, military bolt on gearbox cross member and One Tonne shackles.

The pinion angle is being rotated so the U-Joints stay happy with the increased lift angle, the cross members scalloped for prop shaft clearance and building a new HD rear cross member. 

I don't know if there are areas or sections of the chassis that could benefit from additional strengthening or reinforcing to make it a bit stronger and rugged for heavy use. I don't know if the Australian Military SWB Series Chassis's have any extra reinforcements or not. I figure, now is the time to beef it up a little there are any places that might benefit from it. Or if there would be no benefit then I won't do anything, but wanted to ask and see.

Cheers, Allen 

 

[Daan]

If it is in good condition, i don't recall a landrover chassis ever breaking to be fair.

[abosely]

Thanks Daan, I'm not worried or particularly thinking that there is any weak spots or places on the SIII SWB chassis. I just wanted to ask while I have a stripped frame down to bare metal, because I'm still pretty new to Land Rovers.

I wanted to make sure I don't have it all back together and people say, why didn't you reinforce 'blank area'?! lol

That's good to know, so I'll keep plugging along on prepping the chassis & getting it ready for paint.  

Cheers, Allen

[Snagger]

Gear box and bell housing cross members sometimes get dented when doing very hard off roading, but that's about it.

[Arjan]

You could consider making the gearbox crossmember removable - easier in the future.

We abused our series chassis a lot over the past 25 years and no problems.

Hope you galvanize it.

 

[ejparrott]

Stage 1 V8 also has a removable flywheel housing crossmember, so that could easily be replaced if damaged

[abosely]

Thanks for the input guys, sorry I thought I had replied back on this thread already. :-(

I'm building a new chassis, out of 3.5mm for the rails, cross members 1 & 4, the rear cross member is .188"/3/16" material. Getting Richards Chassis, under the flywheel cross member and military bolt on gearbox cross member and all 6 outriggers. Going to add a plate of .188'/3/16" across the bottom of the under flywheel and gearbox cross members to help prevent them from getting banged up.

The 3.5mm metal weighs less than 20lbs more than using 2.5mm metal, and is almost the same price.

The rear cross member will look the same as a standard one. Building it out of 4"/102mm x 6"/154mm .188"3/16" wall rectangular tube, with the outer part cut to the tapered shape and a piece of 1"/51mm x 4"/102mm welded to the bottom to make the lower center part the same height as a standard  cross member.

All the bolt holes are being sleeved with 1/4"/6mm wall tubes welded in. This will be stronger than standard and won't have any places for mud and water to collect and look like a standard rear cross member.

I've started a build thread here in the Series forum.

Cheers, Allen

[Snagger]

Take a look at UK MoD Series vehicles, and you'll see the rear cross member is straight - no tapered ends and no centre step down (to make space for civvy tow hitches, PTO and rear fuel tank mounts on 109s).  A straight cross member won't look like a mod, especially with 1-ton dumbirons, which were also used on MoD 109s.  A straight cross member would also allow the use of standard MoD rear bumperettes, if you wanted them.  It doesn't look as neat, and there is a potential for the corners to catch on rocks or trees off road, but I think that risk is small.  So, there are pros and cons to each shape, but it does open up the choice.

[Daan]

To be fair, a land rover chassis is 2mm wall, and unless you crash it, almost never bends. You just need to stop it rusting.

 

Daan

[missingsid]

I was told a story by a work mate who drove APCs in the Army, after one broke down on the plain he was given a LR to drive to the workshop and back.

On his return he was greeted with stares of shock and horror, the LWB was sagging like a banana. He said he had just driven it the same way as he drove the APC!

[FridgeFreezer]

I didn't even think they were 2mm, 1.5mm was the number in my head. Some aftermarket HD ones are thicker 2/2.5 but as said above I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone actually damage a chassis that wasn't already badly rusty, other than the odd dent along the bottom from landing on a rock.

3.5mm is massive overkill, sure it might not add much and it's low-down ballast I suppose but geez...

[Snagger]

I measured my original 109 chassis as 1.8mm, whatever SWG that equates to, but it wasn't a very careful measurement.  The Marsland replacement has 3mm main rails, but I think the rest is 2mm.

[ejparrott]

On 12/05/2017 at 9:18 PM, abosely said:

 

I'm building a new chassis, out of 3.5mm for the rails, cross members 1 & 4, the rear cross member is .188"/3/16" material. Getting Richards Chassis, under the flywheel cross member and military bolt on gearbox cross member and all 6 outriggers.

Cheers, Allen

If I were you, get a Stage 1 V8 cross member for under the flywheel.  It's a touch further back - inline with the bulkhead outriggers - and is also bolt in.  I've just ordered one for my 88" chassis

[abosely]

I didn't know about the Stage 1 under flywheel cross member wa a bolt in type, that would be nice. 

Eaiser if need to get to gearbox and be replaceable if damaged in the future sometime.

Cheers, Allen

[Bowie69]

The MOD versions were bolt in as well.

[abosely]

The under flywheel and not just the under gearbox correct?

just making sure I understand what I think I understand. Lol

Cheers, Allen

[FridgeFreezer]

I used a RR/Disco crossmember as they bolt in and are easier to come by.

[ejparrott]

I think there's some confusion. 

To the best of my knowledge the military only had the bolt in GEARBOX cross member, that's certainly what my mil/1-ton chassis has.

 

The Stage 1 V8 had a bolt in FLYWHEEL cross member., but no GEARBOX cross member.  The Stage 1 gearbox appears to be mounted the same as boingys.

[abosely]

Ok, I think I'm finally getting up to speed here. :-)

Today I measured up & made patterns to have a bolt in flywheel cross member. It will be 4"/102mm x 2"/51mm - .188"/4.7mm tube, with .188"/4.7mm plates on the ends and bolt through the chassis rails with .188"/4.7 wall tubing welded in as crush sleeves.

making the bolt in gearbox cross member out of 2"/51mm x 1-½"/38mm - .188"/4.7mm tubing and mount like the military flywheel cross member.

i won't be able to get to metal place to pick up the steel till sometime next week.

But hope to make them next week, I'll post up pics when I get them made.

making two sets, one for the 69' SIIA I'm bringing hoe this week & a set for Kevin, my nephew that I'm giving the 72' SIII and he is going to rebuild it now.

Cheers, Allen

[ejparrott]

Sounds like you're copying the boingy gearbox cross member.  The Stage 1 V8 bolts in under the chassis exactly as the military gearbox cross member does.

 

There's a picture here : http://www.defendersource.com/forum/f8/lhd-1982-109-3-5v8-low-mileage-34414.html

of the stage 1 V8 cross member.  It's mounted inline with the bulkhead outrigger using ears welded to them and under the chassis

[abosely]

Is that a good or bad thing? Still pretty new to Series, so not familuar the boingy gearbox cross member.

Cheers, Allen

[ejparrott]

I don't think it's particularly good or bad either way.  Personally I think it's just more difficult to achieve than a stage 1 type, what with all the effort of drilling the chassis in the right places an welding in crush tubes

[abosely]

Can you explain the Stage 1 type cross member for me? I don't really have a mental pic of what it is and how it works. It uses 1 cross member to replace the two, ie under flywheel and under gearbox cross members? What supports the gearbox with this set up?

If there is a simpler and just as strong set up, I would prefer to go that route. I'm using a 300Tdi and moving the engine 102mm forward with Stumpy R380 and Ashcroft adapter kit to mount the Series TC to the R380, if that makes any difference.

I appreciate the input here. I want to have a clean, strong and simple as possible installation.

Cheers, Allen

 

[ejparrott]

I found it remarkably difficult to find pictures of Stage 1 V8 chassis on the internet, however a helpful chap on the Series farcebook group sent me this picture of his.  You can see the 2 exhausts of the V8 running through.  The outrigger sort of middle to top right of photo, that it the bulkhead outrigger, underneath it you can see the flywheel cross member which is bolted in.  On the chassis rail at the left of the photo you can see 3 bolt heads, these are the gearbox mounts which are Defender/disco style and there is no cross member there.  My 109 has 200TDi/LT77/LT230 and I didn't swap to the boingy gearbox mounts, I maintained the removable gearbox cross member of my military/1-ton chassis, and the Series 3 flywheel cross member.  The Series 3 flywheel cross member causes problems with a TDi in the standard place as the wading plug and timing hole end up directly above the cross member.  By having the V8 cross member instead, which I've ordered for the new chassis for my 88, this is further back and will keep clear of the hole.  Furthermore if for some reason I ever decide to put a 2286 and original 4-speed transmission back in, the Stage 1 cross member will still not interfere with the original style engine or gearbox.  Additionally being bolt in I can modify and build new as many times as I want without affecting the galv of the chassis!

 

All that being said, I don't know what effect moving your engine forward 4" will have to the whole thing anyway.  I've just been and measured mine which is LT77 not R380, but if that was moved forward 4" then the gearbox drain and filter would be right over the cross member, not a lot of use for doing oil changes.  That alone convinces me moving the engine forward is more trouble than it's worth, for an LT77, I don't know where the drain is on an R380.

 

Going out and measuring for you, I've just realised the Stage 1 cross member will give me a further benefit by being in just the right place to give me a mounting point for my LT230 conversion to use the red and yellow levers for HiLo and Difflock, definnitly a productive morning.

[Snagger]

As long as the attachment points are made correctly, the bolt on cross members are good.  They can be a lot more convenient than welded cross members, allowing the transmission to be lowered out of the vehicle instead of needing the whole floor and seat base removing from the cab.  Of course, the tunnel needs to be removed to undo the bellhousing nuts, and to get that out in a Series, the floor panels have to come out (unlike a Defender)...

MoD Series LRs had a gearbox cross member very similar to the standard one, but it was held by two longitudinal through-bolts in brackets on the underside of the chassis rails, much like the bell housing cross member in Ed's photo above.  Unless you have a lift and transmission jacks, though, or an engine crane and a tackle block to lower the transmission out, then it's a bit pointless to mod the chassis just for that.  I didn't know the V8 had a removable cross member under the flywheel, and it could be convenient, but again, a dedicated mod is not likely to be worth the work.  If you're moving cross members because of an engine and transmission change, though, then making them removable while you're at it makes sense.

Some of the coilers used the transfer box as a cross member, bolting to the chassis with feet that faces the inner faces of the rails and using crush tubes.  That is perfectly adequate in lieu of the original cross member.  They also have removable cross members under the bell housing with tall ears that bolt to the inside of the chassis faces, again with anti crush tubes in the rails.  Some had a square section cross member (I think RRC and Discovery), while others have circular section (Defender, I think).  Because the width between the chassis rails is identical on all Series II, III, Defender, RRC and Discovery models, you can fit one of those quite easily, likewise the LT230 and side mounts.