GP100 New Gigglepin winch

[Soren Frimodt]

I don't know if you've already seen it, but thought I'd share it on here anyways  

I quite like it, I really like the move away from Billet everything, it really is unnecessary it many cases, a casting is plenty strong for a Winch housing. And it does make it both heavier and more expensive, so a great move me thinks  

One thing that had me chuggling a bit was the lightened gears.. I remember how people laughed at me when I drilled holes in the gears of my mini 8274 in 2011, now that Jim does it I bet you everybody will be doing it

And the Price is very good too, it will really give Redwinch a run for their Money I reckon

[dangerous doug]

Spoken like a true salesman

 

I like it a lot and am in right in saying it's cheaper than the GP80? Having a modular winch like that in any configuration for one price will almost bring one into my price range lol

 

 

imnpretty sure the main shafts are made by quaife so I assume the new gears are also made there, at least you know there made properly

[Soren Frimodt]

2 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

I like it a lot and am in right in saying it's cheaper than the GP80? Having a modular winch like that in any configuration for one price will almost bring one into my price range lol

 

Yes it is, and I reckon that is very much because of the lack of billet items. So great for the costumer. Also 10kilos lighter than a Redwinch isn't bad at all!

[Daan]

On 07/04/2017 at 0:01 PM, Soren Frimodt said:

Yes it is, and I reckon that is very much because of the lack of billet items. So great for the costumer. Also 10kilos lighter than a Redwinch isn't bad at all!

Entirely incorrect; the gigglepin winch has always been made from castings. The only difference is that they are no longer made by Quaiffe. Jim now manufactures it in house. Quaiffe clearly asked too much money for producing it, hence the price difference. The weight difference as far as I can see is the holes drilled in the gears.

The main competitor, redwinch still make their winches machined from solid.

 

Daan

[Bowie69]

Did anyone see Jim and Rob Butler on Extra Gear this week?

Driving a couple of milner M06s(?) round a wooded track.

[Soren Frimodt]

Hmm Daan. I'm not sure you've watched video then?  First off he tells us the top housing is 1,5 kgs lighter, and second he tells us that someone, not who though, but someone makes his gears. he would probably have said in house if it was the case  And you can't save 10kgs just in the gears  

[Daan]

Listening to the video, he saved 1.5 kg from the gears and 4.5 total. One of the main problems he had with Quaiffe is that he had to wait for them to make any changes; Quaiffe never used a winch in their lives, so it is hard to expect them to do a good job. now he bought solidworks and is able to everything in house; he improved on the original design, although still being cast, and from ten years of experience, he came up with this.

 

Daan

[SteveG]

10kg in total per winch, and gives the example of someone running two winches would save 20 kilos. 

Cheers, Steve 

[Daan]

18 hours ago, SteveG said:

10kg in total per winch, and gives the example of someone running two winches would save 20 kilos. 

Cheers, Steve 

Listen again. he is 10 kg ligther from a leading competitor (redwinch?).

 

Daan

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

My lunch box isn't fat off this lol.

 

Bollox to it 10 or 20 kgs is bugger all on most truck reliability strength and pulling power would be higher on my want list ...

[Daan]

Every little helps...

 

[honitonhobbit]

Interesting. I was under the impression that Quaife owned the design of the original Gigglepin twin motor set up and Jim was just the main distributor - something to do with development costs

I know where I would shop - and it isn't at Jim's

[Dave W]

I'm nervous about buying anything "new" from Gigglepin, they don't exactly have a good track record when it comes to supporting their products and "known" points of failure. Their customers basically end up paying for their R. and D. When you phone them up and say "x has just snapped in half" the normal response is something like "oh yes, that's a known issue with the early ones, we can sell you an improved one for £x * 2". You don't even get the replacement at cost price even though they've acknowledged it was a faulty part by design or manufacture.

They're obviously feeling the pinch a bit though with Redwinch and, from the consumer's point of view, having Redwinch and Gigglepin going head to head to compete against each other is always going to improve innovation and price ! Sadly both are out of my "justifiable costs" budget at the moment but Redwinch is where my money would go if I was looking for a new winch.

[honitonhobbit]

I get the feeling it's not head to head anymore. RED dominated the Hammers after Warn fitments. They are selling all over the world in big numbers. Most importantly, they look nice

[Dr3w]

I know there are multiple ratio's available, but does anyone know the base capacity of a GP100?

[honitonhobbit]

Allowing that no manufacturer of winches produces accurate, useable figures I doubt it. Maybe 100 JM's?

Speed and stall weight are doable. RED have produced accurate draw figures for their new motor

[Soren Frimodt]

I'm sorry guys, I didn't know there was all this hate towards Jim and his products, me being a Dane, thought you guys were more patriotic about this fellow countryman of yours who has done great in his business and seemingly is doing a lot of good things for the sport as well.. But what do I know? 

But frankly Dave W. I don't understand your comment about letting the costumers pay for the R&D? Is that not how everybody does it? It would be like you walking in to the LR Dealer claiming he is to give you a Disco 5 free of charge because you bought a Disco 4 and the 5 is so much better because they learned from all the mistakes on your Disco?

I'm sorry to burst your bobble, but that is how products evolve, and there is no such thing as the perfect product, neither is a Red Winch, simply because there is no such thing as perfection. Its something we all strive for, but it doesn't exist, there is, and always will be a compromise.  And seeing as Red Winch keep developing new winches and motors, they don't seem to have found the Holy Grail yet either?

[Dave W]

It's not "hate" it's just how it is. If you compare Gigglepin to a similar (in my mind) UK engineering company (Ashcrofts) who actually stand by their products 100% with real warranties that they honour, Gigglepin fall well short of the mark in my personal experience. I think it's just something you have to accept with Gigglepin, there's no warranty to speak of because you use the winch in competition, break an Ashcroft half shaft in competition in the first 2 years = free replacement, no quibble. Even out of warranty (my 7 year old Ashcroft CV that I blew apart) Ashcroft bent over backwards to help and shipped parts FOC to me so I could repair it. Will I buy from Ashcrofts again, absolutely. 

Maybe I've just been unlucky by being an "early adopter" and hitting issues with very expensive "upgrades" that subsequently failed. I accept that parts fail through bad design or manufacturing, what really makes a difference though and sways your perception of the company is the attitude when something does break and that something has broken, not through abuse but through design and manufacturing faults. That's when you find out which companies value their customers and which are taking you for a ride. When you phone a company up to tell them the part you bought is now in two pieces, at the very least you expect them to offer a discount on the new part even if they don't feel that the part wasn't fit for use. What you don't expect is some smart arse on the other end of the line saying "Oh, yes, those early ones were really unreliable and weak, we now make our own which are much better and stronger, retail on the replacement is £x + VAT + Shipping, would you like to buy a replacement ?". They wouldn't even do free shipping ! The attitude was simple, pay full price to replace the faulty part or throw your winch in the bin, which is it to be ?

Am I really being unreasonable in expecting, at the very least, a discount on replacements for parts which, by their own admission, weren't up to the task in the first place ? Even bl**dy Britpart give a 2 year warranty on their stuff !

I'm not the only one though, I've spoken to a number of new Redwinch owners and customer service from Gigglepin is a major factor in why they now run Redwinch kit instead. Maybe Gigglepin have been disadvantaged by being first, Redwinch have possibly gained from Gigglepin's experience, I don't know. I'm glad to see Gigglepin responding but, as I said, you won't find me spending more money with them even if I could find a competition in the UK that inspired me to want to take part.

Your Land Rover comparison makes no sense really. If you buy a Land Rover and part of it fails within 3 years they'll replace the part FOC under warranty. If there's an upgraded part available that is better and has superseded the part that's broken, they fit that FOC under warranty. My P38 Range Rover had 3 different alarm pickup modules fitted under warranty before I bought it as Land Rover worked out the faults in it !

Having said all that, I've never bought anything from Redwinch and have no idea what their customer service is like, they may be just as bad or even worse than Gigglepin but I've not heard anything like that around any events. I'm sure their stuff breaks too but my experience of Gigglepin makes me fairly certain that their customer service and after sales support can't be any worse !

just to show I'm consistent, you might want to check out this topic from 5 years ago... the only thing that's changed in that time is that Redwinch seem to have taken a big chunk out of Gigglepin's market share.

 

[Davo]

Or in other words, "it's not just what happens, it's what you do about it that counts," something many companies have trouble understanding. 

[honitonhobbit]

No 'hate' here - known Jim since he was not long out of short trousers. Put him through his Lantra Off Road Driving and Winching tickets (yes he did pass, just). Not knocking his product or his drive. Used both GP and Red AND used them to instruct safe winching techniques. Know Neal Jones well (RED's owner) - I go back to when they first got into winches; designing them for the Supercat Coyote and Jackal, to replace the MileMarker. Simple fact is that RED produce better stuff and are more professional with customer support. Also would say, there is more thought in the products. The new motor is simply there way of doing stuff 'in house'. Not surprising really as they are an international engineering design and fabrication company working for some of the biggest names in the business...

[RedLineMike]

As a casual observation, there was an influx of people switching from gp to red, the vast majority have now switched back to gp, looking at a market perspective, it appears the GP range still sell well 2nd hand, however it appears the red doesn't sell as quick,

 

& Before anyone claims i have a dog in this fight, i have a comeup blazer

[honitonhobbit]

Interesting observation. I'd say it's slightly off the mark. But on the resale value, I'd wholeheartedly agree.

[honitonhobbit]

My apologies, I wrote the above, then went out on site, feeling I needed to say more, but without the time to do so.

As I have mentioned before, I know RED well. I've been close to the development of all their winch products from about a year in. So I keep a close eye on sales and product placement. The international side of the their market has taken off in the last couple of years. They've broken the American market - always tough thanks to Warn. The chaps down under seem to be happy. Europe is content, as is the former USSR and South America, as well as Asia. Where there is the money to buy the product it is sold. They have also captured the commercial market - something GP have not done.

It's worth remembering that although 'Racing' events like the King Series, and the various other modern spawn of Challenge events are now well entrenched internationally, its still a tiny market; with a teeny weeny hierarchy of those with more money than MacDonald's, a middle class of those with some disposable and lower class of those with sod all money but a lot of time and skill. It would be interesting to know actual figures. GP stuff has for the most part been troublesome since it's first outing. Much like a Capri with a Turbo Technics lump attached. An antiquated design, relatively poorly and cheaply made, with far too much power. RED are diametrically opposite. Designed from scratch by a company with R&D capability and budget, with in house machining. Reliability was never an option. Some bits were complex but the parts back up was (and still is) exceptional. International sales were easier as RED are working for big clients all over the universe. I would like to see the figure or who starts GP and moves to RED and visa versa; backed up with the why reasons.

In my opinion and it is only my opinion, you are looking at two totally different companies, providing two totally different options of a small machine used to move vehicles about when they are stuck. As I said before, I know where my money would go - but for me that is a dream, spending that much money on a machine to move a stuck vehicle, would for me, be rash and stupid. I need to feed my kids and pay my mortgage; there are many perfectly good 'machines for moving stuck vehicles' on the market and loads of really good ones that people throw away but can be fixed for pennies. I will admit I find Challenge and it's spawn boring. Ultra 4 more so. It fails to excite me in any way, although I am impressed at the build of many of the vehicles (even if they don't comply to the regs!)

[RedLineMike]

To be honest having been involved briefly with testing of the original hornet i do agree on some points,

on a personal level I would say Neal is a friend first & foremost

In the grand scheme of things there are different strokes for different folks, im at a point now where i find challenge events boring & have no desire to spend a weekend winching from ? to ? or up to my armpits in mud, i find the U4 events much more rewarding to the point I've just finished building what i would say is my ultimate vehicle, no compromise & no corners cut, 

People are balking at how much money I've spent recently but i believe if you want something bad enough you will do what's needed to get it

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by RedLineMike

[honitonhobbit]

Very nice. Quality stands out, even in a photograph. I'm liking the homage to retro in the KC lighting covers. I do like a jeep based buggy. the lines work better

For me the early days of challenge were more interesting. I did like the 'up to the arm pit sin mud' stuff. I liked the minimalist prep on the vehicles, the enormous amount of skill and effort to negotiate what would now be seen as an event car park. The lack of serious injuries despite using more dangerous kit - simply because common sense was more available from all sides. But I came in from RTV; the ultimate in driving skill and minimalism

As for Ultra - to me the skill is in building the machine so it is fast and survives. I did that with comp safari for years. I was single and well paid then. If I still was, then I'd still do it. It's not a spectators sport either. I don't see the point in not having spectators - they are where the big money is

Edited April 25, 2017 by honitonhobbit