94 300tdi vibration poss from axle?

[wayne1978trucks]

This morning towing our trailer with 2 ton on, got to the lights then pulled off and could feel a slight vibration, as I changed into 3rd it got worse. If you are coasting out of gear its still there. As you accelerate its less, it gets worse on deceleration. 

Stopped on level ground with the handbrake off and when I twist the front prop one way then the other itsounds like its clicking at the swivel area.

When I twist hard on the front prop it feels like I can click it past a stiff point like its moving a spline one way then back a spline. 

Looks like im stripping it at the weekend but any ideas?

Thanks Wayne. 

[Snagger]

It could be many things, but a bad prop shaft UJ is prime suspect.

[gerrymc123]

If you want to check the UJ's for play you'll need to jack-up the vehicle, it can't be done when the wheels are still on the ground. 

[Snagger]

16 hours ago, gerrymc123 said:

If you want to check the UJ's for play you'll need to jack-up the vehicle, it can't be done when the wheels are still on the ground. 

More specifically, you can't properly check a UJ with the prop shaft fitted tot he vehicle.  Jacking it up is not required - the prop has to come off and each UJ checks for full movement in every axis, both unladen and with torsional loads applied in each direction to feel for grooved bearing surfaces.

[wayne1978trucks]

lads your bang on , we have had it in the garage today taken the prop off an its the uj nearest the transfer box, its knackered but only one of the four bearings are gone so if anyone else gets same symptoms then it may be this, oh and the nearside click is the drive flange ....a lot of play.

by the way the slider on the prop is very stiff , do you think this is the cause of the failure?

many thanks to the replies chaps.

wayne

[wayne1978trucks]

update I noticed also that a weight is missing the 4 spot welds are there and a square patch of rust but no weight so that also may have been a contribution.

wayne

[Snagger]

A missing balance weight will have some effect on vibration, but probably only enough to be a minr irritation and not enough to significantly affect mechanical wear.

A seized slip joint, on the other hand, will place significant thrust loads on the UJs and the transfer box and diff bearings, causing significant vibration and premature bearing failures.  That is a big deal.  Strip the slip joint' clean it with solvent (petrol will suffice) and a toothbrush, and reassemble regreased and test the joint.  It should slide smoothly.  If not, bin it and replace the whole shaft.

 

Glad you found the culprit, and that it was the easiest and cheapest.

[gerrymc123]

MOT centers issue failures on UJ's after jacking up the vehicle, carrying out a visual inspection and hand manipulating the joint, this is done without the prop shaft being removed, go figure. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by gerrymc123

[Snagger]

Gerry, that only reveals a UJ so far gone that it is already disintegrating.  It does not reveal a binding UJ.  An MoT inspection is to determine whether a vehicle meets a minimum standard of roadworthiness and that it is not fundamentally dangerous.  It is not a check on the reliability of, or sufficient maintenance of, a vehicle.

[Peaklander]

9 hours ago, gerrymc123 said:

MOT centers issue failures on UJ's after jacking up the vehicle, carrying out a visual inspection and hand manipulating the joint, this is done without the prop shaft being removed, go figure. 

Are you sure? My MOT centre says that UJs are not part of the test.

[wayne1978trucks]

well spare prop has gone on the sliding joint is seized beyond .....so in the bin its gone, just need to order the new prop as this one is just a get me on the road for Monday prop.

while I was at it all I noticed I need to order a n/s cv joint as that's got some play and the seals that stop the diff oil from getting to the drive flanges, I did drop in the 2 new rear half shafts while under there and the 4 hd drive flanges that have been sitting on the bench for 12 months, and guess what it now dosent clunk like someone has crashed into the back of me when I pull off. ( I'm shocked how much play was in the flanges and one of the shafts was close to no teeth)

so the repair/service list got shorter........then longer again.

thanks again guys

wayne 

[Snagger]

Don't replace the seal inside the stub axle.  Remove it, or wreck it, and do the same to the others!  Allowing oil past those seals lubricates the drive flange and shaft splines, preventing the very wear you found at the back, and also keeps the wheel bearings healthy.  LR may claim to have put the seals in to stop oil getting out of the plastic cone joint on the flange, but 90s have integrated shafts and flanges on the back end.  The only reason for that seal is to keep the splines and wheel bearings dry and increase maintenance spending.  They have absolutely no positive effect on parts longevity.

 

As for the CV joint, it's a simple job once you get in there, and as much as it pains me to say it, Britpart CVs are amongst the best on the market, perversely.  Only Ashcroft's are better, and at five or more times the price.

[Bowie69]

12 hours ago, Peaklander said:

Are you sure? My MOT centre says that UJs are not part of the test.

Peaklander, I think you are right, nothing in the inspection manual: https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/m4i00000101.htm

They do check for split CV gaiters, in fact any gaiter of any sort that could allow grease to escape appears to be part of the test nowadays...

[Snagger]

I think the CV boot check is only about ensuring that the brakes aren't contaminated and to prevent road surface contamination (particularly dangerous to motorbikes).  Rubber boots on steering rod ends are another item that seems pointless, but on deeper reflection is about reasonable assurance that the rod end won't deteriorate rapidly prior to the next test and result in an uncontrollable vehicle.  They don't care about transmission components like CVs and UJs as the test doesn't consider them safety critical.  Of course,t hat's daft because a seized or flailing prop shaft is a big risk not only to that vehicle but to others, and even a contained CV or UJ failure could cause a major risk if it failed at a critical moment, like pulling out in front of fast traffic or on a crossing.

[gerrymc123]

On 4/23/2017 at 7:36 PM, Peaklander said:

Are you sure? My MOT centre says that UJs are not part of the test.

100% sure as my friends Defender failed on the back prop UJ, I had the fail sheet in my hand, and it was I who replaced it.  In saying that it was in a right state.

[gerrymc123]

14 hours ago, Snagger said:

I think the CV boot check is only about ensuring that the brakes aren't contaminated and to prevent road surface contamination (particularly dangerous to motorbikes).  Rubber boots on steering rod ends are another item that seems pointless, but on deeper reflection is about reasonable assurance that the rod end won't deteriorate rapidly prior to the next test and result in an uncontrollable vehicle.  They don't care about transmission components like CVs and UJs as the test doesn't consider them safety critical.  Of course,t hat's daft because a seized or flailing prop shaft is a big risk not only to that vehicle but to others, and even a contained CV or UJ failure could cause a major risk if it failed at a critical moment, like pulling out in front of fast traffic or on a crossing.

If that indeed is the case then the MOT test in the UK mainland isn't as severe as the one in Northern Ireland because I can assure you I recently worked on a Defender the test center failed on a UJ due to safety concerns.

[Bowie69]

I can't see it in the inspection manual....

[gerrymc123]

8 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

I can't see it in the inspection manual....

Well it looks like the only way I can nip this in the bud is by producing a copy of the MOT failure with the UJ included as one of the faults but as it wasn't my Defender I'll need to contact the guy to see if he still has the failure slip.

[Bowie69]

Absolutely.

Thing is, with MOT computerisation, unless it exists as an RFR then it is tricky to fail it, but we shall see

[gerrymc123]

I draw attention to "Other defects" and the last item on the list;

Ma = Major Defect 1010 : Engine/Transmission : Transmission Joint - worn excessively - Rear

That's the back UJ on the rear prop-shaft.

 

[Bowie69]

Never doubted you of course, but i guess this is one of those oddities between mainland and NI tests, presume maybe more in line with EU standards given your land border is invisible?

I've heard some other stories about NI and Irish cars, insurance etc, so it doesn't surprise me it may be more strict over there.