M005 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Excuse my ignorance, I know nothing about fuel guzzlers If I were to buy a vehicle with a 3.5V8 on carbs, would there be a benefit to switching to an EFI set up? Is this possible? If I go ahead, don't fancy going back to a manual choke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Oh yes... its possible. Fridge would probably tell you it's easy, but then I ain't as clever as him! Whip off the carb intel manifold, bolt on the EFI manifold and flem chamber and all the 'lectrical buggins that goes with it and job done. You then just need to wire it up! This is where the fun starts, but if you can get the loom with the injection gear, then AFAIK all you do is give it some power. The only thing I can think of is that the heads on EFI motors have a small cut out on the inlet port where the injectors fit. It's only a teeezy weenzy half moon shape, but it has to be in the right place obviously! I've heard that some people have just taken a file to the heads to make the injectors fit. Oh... and the other thing, you'll need a high pressure fuel pump instead of them facet pumps that bolt on the rear outrigger. Errrr..... think that it tho. Oh... and the benefits... slightly better fuel economy, more power, if you go Megasquirt instead of Lucas ECU, then you can set the fuel map as you want it too. I've gone Megasquirt simply 'cos I like all the guages that get displayed on the laptop screen... Well bling! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M005 Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks for the reply. Any isues with not changing? Are carbs easy to live with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Can't really comment on carbs as I've never had them, but the people I know who do run them all complain about the same thing... setting them up. Apparently this can be a bit of a bu99er to do as you have to balance the carbs correctly, and if you don't have the tool to do it then it can be a real pain. Oh... the other thing I've just remembered about going EFI, you will need a fuel return pipe that goes back to the tank. Anybody who tells you that all the electricery is gonna make it conk out in water, don't listen to 'em! As long as the ECU doesn't get drowned all should be fine and dandy! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 nowt wrong with a manual choke......... i guess its pretty much as above i suppose - depending on the EFI controller you would need a lambda sensor too ( not hard ) I seriously considered a conversion to EFI, being controlled by megasquirt, but didn't. I went to LPG. Are you going to LPG it? if so, I dont really see the need for EFI personally ( as long as you go for a closed loop system ) I suppose my LPG setup is a little different as I fitted a closed loop system to my carbed setup which isn't really the done thing. All that differs between my LPG and that fitted to a EFI setup is the mixers. I wouldn't gain anything by fitting an EFI setup that I dont already have. when you look at the setup, you could possibly argue that the carbed inlet tract is smaller in volume than an EFI plenum's volume ( i dont know for sure, but it looks it ) and as a result the hysterisis in the system may be a little little bit smaller thus possibly a little more responsive since there is less volume in the system to get used up before a change is felt. . . . but i think thats not really an issue in reality. My overall point though is that if your on LPG, then i dont think you need to worry as much about how well the carbs run ( other than them being balanced to draw the same amount ) since the gas is controlled by its own ECU. Mine runs better on gas than petrol, but i can still run fine on petrol then i run out. I just dont see the need for EFI now. at least not until the carbs give up. If i do go to EFI long term, i still wouldn't change to an EFI plenum. I would remove the carb pistons and instead fit a injector into each carb to point directly at the throttle butterfly. That way, petrol would be added in the same position as normal. I already have the throttle sensor and lambda sensor now . . . .so to change the whole top end is not really necessary. just food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 you could possibly argue that the carbed inlet tract is smaller in volume than an EFI plenum's volume ( i dont know for sure, but it looks it ) and as a result the hysterisis in the system may be a little little bit smaller thus possibly a little more responsive since there is less volume in the system to get used up before a change is felt. . . . but i think thats not really an issue in reality. Yeah... wot he said! Ahhh... you reminded me... I did have carbs on my old Disco many moons ago! I had that on LPG and it ran a treat, but on petrol was an absolute dog. Apparently that was because the needles run dry when you are on LPG. I later found out that the plonkers who installed my system hadn't put a vacuumy thing on to lift the pots up when on LPG which cause dthe needles to get stuck and wear out prematurely Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M005 Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 IF I end up making the purchase, it would be a toy, therefore would not bother with LPG. Also, have never seen an LPG station in Wiltshire or the surrounding areas Thanks for the replies, I'll let you know if I get it etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 This has also crossed my mind a couple of times,, but the Bob runs fine on carbs,, never ( ) as yet had a problem with set up,, and rarely needs any chock to start,, (she does live indoors most of the time) Just had a hybrid in PX for the Defender, which was on injectors,, had a run problem etc, and did think about a swop,, but could not find any reason why !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 This has also crossed my mind a couple of times,, but the Bob runs fine on carbs,, never ( ) as yet had a problem with set up,, and rarely needs any chock to start,, (she does live indoors most of the time) Just had a hybrid in PX for the Defender, which was on injectors,, had a run problem etc, and did think about a swop,, but could not find any reason why !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 opps.. only clicked once,,, Honest !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 eh 'up Tim, You just tryin to increase your post count or wot!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 scotland is a bit sporadic for outlets. nearest one for me is about 24 miles away from me . . . . i live at the big purple dot . . . . where as down south, you've got a fair few more than I do . . . . mind you, wiltshire i suppose could land you int he middle of an open gap out outlets or you may find there is one hiding quite close to you. a fair few of the outlets are not forecourt pumps, but round the back of warehouses and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 "Also, have never seen an LPG station in Wiltshire or the surrounding areas" Yup, enough to keep me goign when I'm down there! Frome, Bath, Stonehenge, Trowbridge & Swindon all have LPG, there are quite a few non forecourt places too. Worst area I've found for getting any (LPG that is!), would be Cairngorm, there is one station up near Daviot, other than it's Inverness or all the way down to Aberfeldy or across to the Fort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M005 Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 I stand corrected on the LPG availability front In my defence; as all my fleet run on God's own fuel, my visits to petrol forecourts are infrequent, hence I am not au fai (sp?) with all available services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Here is the info Dan (V8Bertha) missed out: http://www.juracid.co.uk/lr/index.php?do=e.../rover_efi.html Of particular note is the last line Photos of the process are here. The only argument for keeping carbs is the induction noise, but there's not a lot in it, especially if you have a snorkel. you could possibly argue that the carbed inlet tract is smaller in volume than an EFI plenum's volume ( i dont know for sure, but it looks it ) and as a result the hysterisis in the system may be a little little bit smaller thus possibly a little more responsive since there is less volume in the system to get used up before a change is felt. . . . but i think thats not really an issue in reality. A carb is just a mechnical computer, and there's a reason we don't use mechanical computers anymore... Ignoring stupid flappy airflow meters in favour of proper solid-state systems, there's no contest. To measure airflow accurately, carbs (and stupid flappy airflow meters) have to restrict the inlet airflow to create a pressure differential. Compare the restrition in Dan's inlet tract: The only restriction is the throttle plate, and that's somewhat necessary Long inlet tracts are good for low-down torque, hence why the RR EFi plenum has such long trumpets in it. It's actually something Rover did quite well, shame about the rest of the system! Notice the later Thor inlets are even longer. (Comparison pictures courtesy of Spag here - the 4-barrel setup fits onto weber/holley carb manifolds and is available very reasonably from Bill Shurvinton if you want a 700cfm EFi setup ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 You can tell it's a V8 from the bottom left hand corner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 had to gop back and look,........... absolute classic ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 classic giveaway . . .which reminds me, i need another can of it. restriction on the inlet track? where? B) B) B) I still wont go to an EFI plenum . . . especially when you see this sort of setup for strombergs.... injectors pointiong directly at the throttle body.... ooohhhh so tempting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 restriction on the inlet track? where?  B) B) B) Err, those two clockwork things attatched to the back of the air filters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 errr - those 2 things are empty with the pistons removed - so it aint that much restriction. its only the throttle butterflies in there. if i run out of gas, i pull over and throw in the pistons to get me home.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 If you add a vacuum lifter set, you won't have to take the pistons out. They will be held up out of the airflow all the time you are running on gas. Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 agreed, but thats for later on down the line. Just to get it running on gas has been a bit of a project ( cause its closed loop ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 You can tell it's a V8 from the bottom left hand corner LOL... I need a trade account with that nice Mr. WD40!!! Fisha, bet you wish your engine bay was as pristine as mine tho!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ69 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 blimey fisha, that's an incredibly clean engine/bay are those the £18 'K&N's' that were on ebay somewhere ? Fitted OK obviously. Is he still selling them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 sorry for it being so clean. its been fully rebuilt and hasn't seen anything other than the open road so far . . . even then mostly dry weather. those are indeed the cheapo air filters off ebay, and so far i'm happy with them. do a search for 'universal filters' and they should pop up. they are large compared to proper KNs and you can see the cut outs in the engine bonnet sound proofing. they come with 3 sizes of adapter rings and i used the middle size which is a fairly tight fit, but makes for a good seal. i put the adapter ring on first and then squeezed the filter onto that. just check the underside of the stromberg intake as mine had a braket that was in the way. i just bent it out the road. if you struggling to find the seller on ebay, say so on here and i'll dig out the sellers address from the ebay account. regards, Donald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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