Yakko Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Hi, In an ongoing attempt to track down why my 200tdi is not performing as it should, today I replaced the lift pump and fuel filter. Car starts and runs alright (which in itself is good) but I can't get any diesel to come out of the bleed screw on the fuel filter housing. The pump is brand new and is not "on the cam" as I can move the priming lever the full amount. Nevertheless, I can't seem to get it to bleed properly. Any ideas? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Tdi's are self purging. You shouldn't need to bleed them. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Says in the manual to bleed after changing the fuel filter. Are you getting air from the filter or nothing at all? Maybe there is something wrong with the filter housing itself - blocked bleed screw housing? Has it ever worked or have you never tried? Guess you'd have to remove the filter and the screw and see if there is anything blocking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Well it has to be on the cam for the pump to operate try getting it on the cam the lever then gets pressure when you move it up/down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Hi,In an ongoing attempt to track down why my 200tdi is not performing as it should, today I replaced the lift pump and fuel filter. Car starts and runs alright (which in itself is good) but I can't get any diesel to come out of the bleed screw on the fuel filter housing. The pump is brand new and is not "on the cam" as I can move the priming lever the full amount. Nevertheless, I can't seem to get it to bleed properly. Any ideas? Thanks, If the operating lever thing is "on tha cam" then you can still move the priming handle, it's just floppy and limp so you might find putting a socket on the crank bolt and turning the engine over 1 turn will move it off of the pobe on the cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I've done it the following way at least a dozen times... Unscrew old filter, drain and discard. Screw on new filter. Start engine, but don't rev it just let it idle. There might be a slight drop in revs as filter primes but its never ever failed to start or stalled once started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 But Simon your Lift pump could still be dead and not helping the I/P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Possible, lift pump on the 300Tdi has sprung a leak so was looking the other day and apparently the FIP has enough guts to get by while level, climbs will be too much though, especially on longer wheel bases. However I'm with Simon, I haven't bothered bleeding the system when changing the filter on the 200 (x2) or 300. I usually make sure they are warmed up first and then change over, I do pour some of the fuel from the old filter in, just because I need to do something with it. To the OP, have you opened the bleed screw while the engine is running and confirmed it that way? If the motor is running OK then it is bled though, if you are concerned the new pump is U/S then you could try opening the bleed screw on the pump and operate the primer, this should make it easier to see if it is working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Off to OZ in 2008 14/11/2007 - Skills asessment! 2231-79 C/C++/C# MODL 21/11/2007 - Online VISA application entered ETA to OZ Sep 2008 Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0bcg Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 turn the ignition switch on before you try bleeding it, otherwise the fuel stop solenoid wont allow fuel to pass through Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Eh? Emmigration naff. It's a long and drawn out process.... we should soon be soaking up the sunshine in South Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I've done it the following way at least a dozen times...Unscrew old filter, drain and discard. Screw on new filter. Start engine, but don't rev it just let it idle. There might be a slight drop in revs as filter primes but its never ever failed to start or stalled once started. You "can".... but you shouldn't. It is not good for the injection pump to have air going through it. Best to prime the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I open the bleed screw on top of the filter housing, pull the wire off the fuel solenoid and then get someone to turn the engine over on the key until only fuel comes out of the filter. Doesn't half save a lot of mucking about. Works every time. No problems. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 You "can".... but you shouldn't. It is not good for the injection pump to have air going through it. Best to prime the filter. Having taken a FIP to bits to change the throttle spindle seal... the inside is a reservoir full of fuel. In addition the return pipe from the filter returns the air to the fuel tank before the feed to the FIP. Also I know my lift pump is ok cos it was changed 2 years ago...if you do open the bleed screw it only takes a few pumps of the fuel pump to quickly fill the filter. As others have said, you can always fill the filter with clean fuel (NOT the stuff inside the old filter) if you are really worried about it not being able to prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 You "can".... but you shouldn't. It is not good for the injection pump to have air going through it. Best to prime the filter. So please explain to me why this is a self purging system. Again as a mechanic I again seem to be the one out of step. Ford told us to fit and start with a self purge system. I've always just removed my fuel filter, fitted the new filter and started it up. Never had a problem although as I've only been doing it for the last 66,000 miles I assume it's far too early for things to shew up. Perhaps we should go back to the days of frantic pulling at the lift pump for ages even when there's fuel at the injectors. Yes I've had the pleasure of that on a 550FG mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 It is just not good for the injection pump to run dry as it uses the fuel to lubricate itself. It takes all of 30 seconds to bleed the filter. Not sure what the big deal is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian M Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 when i changed the injection pump on mine, i had a right game getting it started! i ended up gravity feeding the pump from a container i mounted to a piece of hose attacted to the filter housing, as i just couldnt get it to pick up diesel from the tank! i let it run until the container was nearly empty, them switched the pipe over for the original one from the tank and all was well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Just turn the key and let the engine idle for a while. The FIP won't be running dry - if it was, the engine wouldn't be running. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Just turn the key and let the engine idle for a while. The FIP won't be running dry - if it was, the engine wouldn't be running.Les. Exactly Les. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakko Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 I open the bleed screw on top of the filter housing, pull the wire off the fuel solenoid and then get someone to turn the engine over on the key until only fuel comes out of the filter. Doesn't half save a lot of mucking about.Works every time. No problems. Mo That worked very well (almost too well, as a spray of diesel got me in the face), took about 10 seconds of cranking to get all the air out, you could see a lot of air bubbling out. I'd driven the car for about 20 miles since changing the pump and filter, so I can only assume that letting the car run doesn't expel all the air from the system? To satisfy my own curiousity, I also put he car into 5th gear, and allowed it to roll down the slope of my drive, stopping it every metre or so and checking for resistance on the hand pump. After 2 or 3 goes, the handle firmed up, and a strong flow of bubbleless diesel came out of the bleed screw. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakko Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 *Sigh* Truck has now lost all it's power, it starts, runs and revs but couldn't pull the skin off custard. No smoke, just no power. I guess there's some air got somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Just a thought Rich, try it with the fuel filler cap off. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakko Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 Just a thought Rich, try it with the fuel filler cap off.Mo I like your thinking... Just tried it, no improvement. Cheers though. Bit of further explanation. Friday, changed lift pump and fuel filter - but couldn't get it to bleed properly, though it ran ok. Today, tried bleeding it again - can get fuel out of the bleed screw on filter housing, but now the car isn't running right. It starts and revs fine, but is severley lacking in power, top speed is now 52mph and it's only making 0.5bar of turbo pressure. I've not touched anything "over there" near the turbo, have pressure tested the hose from IP to turbo and it's fine. It's like it's only making partial throttle. No smoke (it never has smoked, ever - which makes me think it's always been underfuelling slightly). I cracked open the return on the lift pump and pumped, fuel coming out there. Wish I hadn't messed with it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 Certainly sounds like fuel starvation Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakko Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 Certainly sounds like fuel starvation Mo Yes. I'm confident the lift pump and filter are bled ok - any idea what's next on the check list? How do you bleed the injection pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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