need4speed Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I like need4speeds idea and an extra 5ft-lbs on the nuts! Just in the interest of clarity - i was joking! You really do need to renew the gaskets even if they are relatively new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 By the rapidness of the noise it does not sound like an issue with just one piston. It really sounds like the lifters have not pumped up, but not sure why they would go down if you only took off the inlet manifold. However, those bearings show that there has been some **** flowing in the oil, so it could have blocked the lifters. It really couldn't be an exhaust leak if it does it turning it over with the spark plugs out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 It sounds a bit severe to be lifters but it's difficult to really tell from the video - when I built mine the lifters made a hell of a noise, it took a couple of blips to 3k+ before it all went quiet which does require the suspension of mechanical sympathy for a moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 It sounds a bit severe to be lifters but it's difficult to really tell from the video - when I built mine the lifters made a hell of a noise, it took a couple of blips to 3k+ before it all went quiet which does require the suspension of mechanical sympathy for a moment If these are Rhodes Bleed down lifters then they need soaking submersed in oil (20/50) for a few days - otherwise they will knock like a horrendous thing..... ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 If these are Rhodes Bleed down lifters then they need soaking submersed in oil (20/50) for a few days - otherwise they will knock like a horrendous thing..... ???? They are Rhodes bleed-down lifters, recommended by V8Tuner when I got my Crower 50229 cam. The only thing is the people over on v8forum reckon they're totally wrong for my engine http://www.v8forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8694 Ar$e! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You don't need to soak Rhoads lifters, in fact that won't do anything at all! http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html You can pump them up manually, but in the installation instructions I had with them it didn't specify anything, in fact I seem to remember it saying precisely not to do it! Certainly you need to set the preload before filling with oil! Rhoads lifters can also be used if you have an autobox to soften the cam at idle, stops it hunting/being really rough/stalling etc. Not sure of the spec of your truck so.... If it's a manual, I would tend to agree, you don't really need them with the relatively mild cam you run (compared to a whizzy 6000 rpm race jobbie). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 You don't need to soak Rhoads lifters, in fact that won't do anything at all! http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html You can pump them up manually, but in the installation instructions I had with them it didn't specify anything, in fact I seem to remember it saying precisely not to do it! Certainly you need to set the preload before filling with oil! Rhoads lifters can also be used if you have an autobox to soften the cam at idle, stops it hunting/being really rough/stalling etc. Not sure of the spec of your truck so.... If it's a manual, I would tend to agree, you don't really need them with the relatively mild cam you run (compared to a whizzy 6000 rpm race jobbie). That's what I remembered from when I installed them - don't presoak. I did set the preload with them dry and had to shim the rockers by about 10thou from memory (the middle shim in the kit from Real Steel anyhow). The lifters had been fine, in so far as the engine had been working and not making nasty noises with them fitted, so I think the whole thing of whether I should have them or not is a bit of a distraction from the actual 'nasty noise' problem. If though, as Kiwicar suggests on v8forum, that they are 'costing me a load of torque' then that's obviously something I need to address as the whole aim of any improvements I do to the engine is to get low-end torque, because that's why I like V8s! The question I've asked now on v8forum is, bearing in-mind that the cam has only done about 5,000 easy miles without any revving over 3,500rpm, can I get away with putting new OEM lifters on the existing cam? I don't really want to write-off a 170 quid cam as well as the lifters.... Oh, it's a 110 Stationwagon with an LT85 btw. Cheers, Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 New lifters = new cam I am afraid... TBH, my money is on a nut dropped into the other bank, I had one fall out of a carburettor butterfly on my lightweight, from a *new* carb (no wonder the throttle was sticky!) and it sounded just like that.... similar symptoms, wouldn't idle without throttle due to the increase in force required to turn it over and make the hammering noise.... Have you got the other head off yet? If not, try turning it over on the starter now, if it still bangs then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 New lifters = new cam I am afraid... Now that sucks! I wonder if I pulled a Rhodes lifter apart and compared the bucket to an OEM one, whether the OEM internals could be fitted into the Rhodes bucket.... TBH, my money is on a nut dropped into the other bank, I had one fall out of a carburettor butterfly on my lightweight, from a *new* carb (no wonder the throttle was sticky!) and it sounded just like that.... similar symptoms, wouldn't idle without throttle due to the increase in force required to turn it over and make the hammering noise.... Have you got the other head off yet? If not, try turning it over on the starter now, if it still bangs then.... Not yet - didn't get anything done last weekend - rained all day Saturday and Sunday was spent in the garden (under orders....). To be honest a break from the engine probably did me good as well. Cheers, Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hmmm I've got Roades bleed down on the Eales Motors, JE advise soaking for several days, as they will very very slowly fill, and this is a lazy mans way of filling them - seemed to work for me, versus the rhoades way of filling them My point really was if they are not with oil in they will all knock like bu**gery on starting ... Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hmmm I've got Roades bleed down on the Eales Motors, JE advise soaking for several days, as they will very very slowly fill, and this is a lazy mans way of filling them - seemed to work for me, versus the rhoades way of filling them My point really was if they are not with oil in they will all knock like bu**gery on starting ... Nige I checked one yesterday (in a spare 5 minutes sneaked-away from the gardening ) Pulled one out of the engine and tried pushing it in and it was absolutely solid - Neil V8Freak and I tried this on Friday as well and it was solid then. So I put it in the vice and slowly squeezed it which made it ooze oil out of the little hole on the side and then once empty it moved up and down easily, so I think the lifters are full of oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That sounds right, I had to empty all of mine (by removing the circlip) when re-setting the pre-load. Come on, whip the other head off when you have half an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 That sounds right, I had to empty all of mine (by removing the circlip) when re-setting the pre-load. Come on, whip the other head off when you have half an hour If only it were a half an hour job - the exhaust manifold on that side is a total pig to shift and will lead to much swearing and bleeding. I guess it's got to be done though (and it would be a good time to get around to lagging that exhaust as well...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Disconnect the downpipe rather than the manifold... three bolts vs 8, much easier to repair a manifold than the head too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Disconnect the downpipe rather than the manifold... three bolts vs 8, much easier to repair a manifold than the head too.... It's a dodgy Double-S stainless tubular manifold, along with studs on the manifold I am sorely tempted to replace the studs with 3/8UNC cap screws, which would be a lot easier to get on and off, but I wonder if they'd get tight enough to stay done-up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Rhoads lifters can also be used if you have an autobox to soften the cam at idle, stops it hunting/being really rough/stalling etc. Sounds like a horrible/OTT bodge to correct a basic tuning issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Mr Eales has these, and I'm familiar with the pros cons and whys and whewrefores, but in anything other than a supertuneed mad cam'd engine they are not only not needed but will make for a cammier / bandier powerband, and std lifters would be far nicer and give a more tractable engine across the rev range But if not filled with oil they will a rattle like **** on startup and will contuinue to do so for time and damaage the new cam v quickly Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 can I get away with putting new OEM lifters on the existing cam? Of course you can. New cam = new lifters, NOT new lifters = new cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I'd check on that, my belief is that the lifters and cam need to bed in together, not just the lifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I went straight to the horse and e-mailed Rhodes for advice. Obviously you'd expect them to be a bit biased, but they do say in the FAQ that there's no point in fitting them with a factory cam & I did make it clear that I had the lifters already, so they weren't going to miss a sale and I wan't going to demand a refund or sue them or something and I got this reply: "You are getting some bad information. Any time you use a performance cam, Rhoads Lifters will substantially help your low-end torque and drivability. I would recommend them for your application. Hope this is helpful." I suppose it's all down to whether you'd class the Crower 50229 as a 'performance cam' or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Throw the rhoads in the bin. Rattly pieces of shi8. Just do it! Fit new genuine LR lifters in there. But before you do that - stop pratting about and get that other head off Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I went straight to the horse and e-mailed Rhodes for advice. Obviously you'd expect them to be a bit biased, Bit like asking a hooker before you pay her If she 'loves you' " allegedly Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 what time she round this week nige? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'd check on that, my belief is that the lifters and cam need to bed in together, not just the lifters. That's possibly true but I do know that a new set of lifter on the Rover V8 won't cure wear on the cam lobes due to their asymetric design, so often the advice is not to waste money putting new lifters on a rattly old cam. I've done it before without problems though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 That's possibly true but I do know that a new set of lifter on the Rover V8 won't cure wear on the cam lobes due to their asymetric design, so often the advice is not to waste money putting new lifters on a rattly old cam. I've done it before without problems though. The query being raised was that he had a new cam and new rhodes lifters and if he changed the lifters would he have to replace the cam. The answer is simple, he can change the lifters without changing the cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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