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yes, thanks, my shafts will be shortened down sometime this year haha, hopefully.

any steering solutions would be much apprecuated, i know the one on this picture is a neat solution, but to keep on topic and interesting for now anyones input will be welcome.

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  • 2 weeks later...

cool project, I read the research with great interest.

Fifteen years ago I took a short cut to the problem and used RRC axles. The tubes were cleared from everything that had to do with axle links and coil springs. Then DIY leaf spring mounts were welded to the axle in the correct position - the axle had to be titled to have the (defender-type) track rod clear above the parabolic leaf springs (at full steering lock the track rod made a mark in the thick layer of anti-rust-wax that was on the upper leaf - so not much space between them, but more space wasn´t needed, it never could foul). The somewhat correct the castor, 1ton front spring shackles were used (all round). Only real fab work is needed at the r/h spring u-bolt and the thick plate under the spring (I have no pic, but could make a sketch).

So I had modified only parts that are not subject to wear. Brake Parts and axle shafts are easy to replace and to upgrade.

Turning circle was really, really enormous, due to the extra track width. Even with 9.00s turning cirlce wouldn´t have be beaten by any other Rover.

Only drawback - with reasonable big wheels I needed Defender´s wheel arch extensions - which was aesthetically very tolerable to me; had I confined myself to 205R16-16, I should not have needed them.

The 88" I drove all that with behaved very well, I think it directional stability was better than with my lifted RRC.

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  • 3 weeks later...

How long have those welded shafts lasted so far?

ive used them for about 1.5 years, in which time ive done a few RTV's, general road driving, and farm driving. the conversion was done by the previous owner and he was running the conversion for at least 5 years, using it on the road, at pay and plays, and also LRO off roading trips etc. so they havnt had an easy time, but have coped so far!

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Have you considered swapping the hubs side for side. The arms would just bolt on facing the other way so end up the same, your angles would stay the same as set by the swivel ball and you would get the benefit of moving the calipers well away from the dampers. So long as the balljoints clear the calipers that is.

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ive used them for about 1.5 years, in which time ive done a few RTV's, general road driving, and farm driving. the conversion was done by the previous owner and he was running the conversion for at least 5 years, using it on the road, at pay and plays, and also LRO off roading trips etc. so they havnt had an easy time, but have coped so far!

Sounds like they have been well tested :) Top marks to the welder!

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Have you considered swapping the hubs side for side. The arms would just bolt on facing the other way so end up the same, your angles would stay the same as set by the swivel ball and you would get the benefit of moving the calipers well away from the dampers. So long as the balljoints clear the calipers that is.

do you mean swapping the hubs, but keeping the chrome swivels as they are?

if so, i think that the caliper would be to close to the TRE's, given that the series steering arm is angled upwards.

also, because of the chassis geometry in that area (near the dumb irons), under articulation (normal road driving i think it would be fine), the caliper would get to close to the chassis, and it may rub on the chassis, i'd rather it hit the damper.

i think i could try defender calipers as i think they are of a smaller profile to the RRC ones.

or, finding some dampers that i could mount on top of the axle to get them out the way completely!!

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as i said before, i was going to change the swivel seal this half term, and today got the job done. i stripped the whole thing down completely so you (and I) would understand how it all goes together, rather than change the seal the easy way.

http://forum.landrov...rake-conversion

Any chance of posting the pictures on here as I cannot access them (or is that a no no for forum etiquet?).

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so its sorted then, i now feel a bit surplus as after all my measurements, theres a detailed enough write up there

i think i will drill and tap 2 more studs to the bottom steering arms. track rod seems sorted as can be put on the front

the only thing that needs working out is the angles for the tapped holes in the adaptor plate which need to be bang on. im all exited now.

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Any chance of posting the pictures on here as I cannot access them (or is that a no no for forum etiquet?).

i'll have a go, i havnt put pictures on this forum before so i'll have to work out how.

people have asked me how the front disc brake conversion on my 2a was done, i didnt do it so i didnt know what to tell them. although, today i replaced the leaking swivel seal, and rather than replacing it the easy and quick way, i stripped the whole lot down so i could explain / get to know how it was put together. if any one tries this conversion, im not responsible for any thing that goes wrong when you are fitting, manufacturing parts or using this conversion on your series.

i wasnt sure where would be best to post this, so mods if its better else where, please move it!

firstly, i will start with what i understood it to be, a series axle casing with RRC swivels bolted to it.

post-33430-0-27285200-1319664484_thumb.jpg

the conversion

spacer: given the different length of axle casings and that the stud pattern is different between the series and RRC, a spacer had to be made. this acts as a spacer but also an adapter between the different stud patterns.

post-33430-0-00448400-1319664542_thumb.jpgpost-33430-0-22865800-1319664571_thumb.jpgpost-33430-0-43147200-1319664612_thumb.jpg

the first pic shows the spacer, the second the end of the series axle casing. because of the locating lip on the casing itself, a bit of the spacer had to be machined out to accommodate this.

measurements - the total thickness of the spacer is 1/2". the amount of metal left on the spacer where the inset for the lip on the series casing was machined out is 7mm. (the reason im using metric + imperial measurements is that i used which ever gave the roundest measurement).

half shafts: because the RRC swivel housings are used, the RRC half shafts and CV are used. although, the half shafts would be too long, so these were cut and welded on a lathe. who ever did the welding did a good job and i've found them to be plenty strong enough (im probably going to break one on the next RTV trial now!)

post-33430-0-78395600-1319664671_thumb.jpgpost-33430-0-77993900-1319664693_thumb.jpg

reached the upload limit, part 2 in a second!

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i lay the cut and welded one (N/S) next to a spare standard N/S RRC half shaft to show the difference.

measurements - standard RRC shaft 83.4cm. cut half shaft for my 2a is 70.1cm

steering : the RRC would have had the track rod across the back of the axle, attached to arms that are cast onto the swivel housing itself. although, for this conversion, the cast arms were cut off in favor of using standard series bolt on steering arms. if im honest, this is the part of the conversion i was slightly dubious about; before i took it apart.

the top of the housing is held on in the standard way by using the standard swivel pin. at the bottom, i thought the series steering arm had been adapted and made to fit to hold the bearing in place, acting as the bottom swivel pin, as well as being the steering arm. although i was wrong. the standard RRC bottom swivel pin is used, and therefore the hub is held on in the standard way.

post-33430-0-29673900-1319664814_thumb.jpg

by the look of it, the RRC studs were replaced with the longer ones from the series housing. therefore, the swivel pin is put in the housing, and the studs then screwed in to lock it in position.

the series steering arm is then bolted on. although, the steering arm was adapted so that when before it would have acted as the bottom swivel pin and the steering arm on the series, on this conversion, its only purpose it to do the steering, nothing else.

post-33430-0-29630800-1319664857_thumb.jpgpost-33430-0-06224900-1319664876_thumb.jpg

i then finished putting it back together, and refilled with swivel grease. (sorry MUD, couldnt resist! biggrin2.gif ) although, it seems to have done a good job of keeping the bearings in good condition, its able to mix with the ep90 in the axle, and gives the bearings a good coating, keeping them protected.

post-33430-0-05153600-1319664912_thumb.jpg

also, i replaced the seal that goes between the disc and the stub axle as it was leaking everywhere. now, the steering is better which is a surprise, their isnt as much play, especially surprising as i didnt change any shims.

and thats it!

discomikey: no worries, i was quite interested to find out how it was put together also!

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I would say that if I was shortening shafts, I would be looking to machine them and add in an interferance fit sleeve, then weld them and on a really high amperage! Obviously sleeve size is limited by the stub axle orifice. Using the sleeve should help keep things a bit more straight as well.

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I would say that if I was shortening shafts, I would be looking to machine them and add in an interferance fit sleeve, then weld them and on a really high amperage! Obviously sleeve size is limited by the stub axle orifice. Using the sleeve should help keep things a bit more straight as well.

they were welded on a lathe to keep everything straight, so no worries there.

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when the ends of the cuts have been turned down to a point, so when welding the weld can get right into the middle if that makes sense, it means that the outer surface of the weld is about 3/4 of an inch wide or so but in the middle the 2 parts of the shaft are touching. done just using a standard mig/arc welder and a lathe, (mig would be easier of course)

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ah!! got you. so theoretically it should be stronger? :)

That would depend on many things, the material of the filler rod used, what grade steel the shaft is made of, how the shaft was originally heat treated.... and of course what has welding done to the original heat treatment...... also was the whole shaft heat treated after welding (the rust pattern suggests it wasn't).

Tbh the fact it is still in one piece suggests the original modifier didn't do too bad :)

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