TIG Welding - A Mature Stuudunts (iinit) Report

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Righty Ho all,

About 2 years ago I did a very basic TIG Welding course in Farnborough,by the end of the course I almost had what I thought were the basics,

bought a TIG Welder and practised and practised and practised. For Butt welds (2 bits of metal gap in the middle and weld it up, I was ok,

better on thicker stuff, say 3mm, but not so good on say less than 1mm !. Simples, stay away from thin stuff

Lap welding (One bit over the other) also "Sort of OK". T welds - ie 1 x bit flat + 1 bit at 90 Degrees etc weld up - er "Non"

Ali ? I would love to be able to but coudn't, even though I upgraded to a Whizzy Weco 220 AC?DC TIG with water coller and water colled

torch, whilst I could and do TIG some stuff Nicely, I cannot sort out welding anything at any angle. It didn't seem to be any difference what I

did or how hard and how often I practised, just didn't improve, as a result probably of not knowing why it was going wrong.

Where I had got the basics - then with practise these were good, so I decided enough was enough and I needed a Proper course.

And there is a bit of a problem. Welding - especially TIG is not exactly "trendy" I found numerous courses for transendetal happy therapy

type things where you could learn to heat rocks and place on people heads along with ringing a Traingle and going "Homdidley" but TIG

welding courses are rare.

I found one, and it was £299 for 10 weeks at Crawley Colege. Thats 1 evening a week for 10 weeks.

I enrolled and have been there for about 4th time, its once a week for 10 weeks, and is a proper certificated welding course mit

exams and pass or fail grades. They do right up to and including Coded training, er, which I shall not be doing.

The 1st 10 weeks will probably be mainy steel work, so I am competant at all types angles and stylees of welding,

the aim is then a further 10 weeks in Ali up to and Including Level 2 Pass - Ali, Steel & Stainless

This ongoing review wil show you how bad I was at the start of certain types of weld angles, and the impovement, and if and when I pass.

I will scan up the course notes so you can see exactly what is expected and what you get for your money.

So far I am hugely impressed, the training is about 8 : 1 and the level of coaching and style spot on.

Week 1 was "Enrolemnt"

This is done by me being given a series of test pieces (Which form Level 1 exam)n to see the standard of my TIG abilities and where lacking.

There were 6 x pieces all test pieces are 150mm x 50mm x 1mm 1mm ?..easy as F to blow apart

• Piece 1 - Run 3 x beads full length with rods showing bead run etc
  
• Piece 2. Butt weld full length can stop and start
  
• Piece 3 Lap weld as above
  
• Piece 4 T Weld - My Horror
  
• Piece 5 V Weld on inside
  
• Piece 6 V weld on ^ shape welding the top
  

Results :

• 1 Borderline pass
  
• 2. Pass
  
• 3 Debatable
  
• 4 FAIL
  
• 5 FAIL:
  
• 6 FAIL
  

Whilst some of the weld were "OK" they would not be classed good enough for a pass. I was not saying "Be hard / Be Kind" its what the

course is for, so I was enrolled Level 1

I have now past Level 1 in 3 weeks, and have the certificate to prove it I was on my way - or so I thought....

I will post up later some course notes and some good bad ugly and pass pieces and explanations as to why / how etc.

The fact I past in 3 weeks is due to me having MIG experience of 20 years and the basiscs of TIG and a heap of old course

practise, Torch control is everything, when you start TIG you WILL touch the torch down, this will containate the weld, and bugger up the

tungtsen tip, in fact you will probably spend more time tip sharpening than welding, here at least I was OK, touch down was rare so welding

practise and instruction was high.

More laters

Level 2 - now thats a whole new worldof pain

so far ?

• 1 FAIL:
  
• 2 Fail
  
• 3 Fail
  
• 4 Fail
  
• 5 Fail
  
• 6 Fail
  

At least I am consistant

More laters

[steve b]

pictures nige , pictures

Good move I reckon , proper tuition will stay with you forever

The difference in the wieght of the torch compared to a mig takes some getting used to

looking forward to seeing the course notes

cheers

Steveb

[FridgeFreezer]

so I am competant

Are you sure? :ph34r:

[landroversforever]

The fact I past in 3 weeks is due to me having MIG experience of 20 years and the basiscs of TIG and a heap of old course

practise, Torch control is everything, when you start TIG you WILL touch the torch down, this will containate the weld, and bugger up the

tungtsen tip, in fact you will probably spend more time tip sharpening than welding, here at least I was OK, touch down was rare so welding

practise and instruction was high.

So right on the touch-downs. You will touch down, it drove me mad when I was starting!! And as you say, I spent the majority of the first two weeks sharpening the tungstens

Wish I had my own set to keep my hand in!

Sorry if I missed it Nige, What are you welding carbon/stainless/alli?

[CwazyWabbit]

So right on the touch-downs. You will touch down, it drove me mad when I was starting!! And as you say, I spent the majority of the first two weeks sharpening the tungstens

Wish I had my own set to keep my hand in!

Sorry if I missed it Nige, What are you welding carbon/stainless/alli?

He's passed level 1 which was steel and now he is happily failing level 2 which is Aluminium and stainless .... I think...

Looking forward to the pics so I can see how bad my tig is

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Funnily enough I found TIG much easier than I expected.

Largely I think due to a misspent youth with soldering irons doing fiddly stuff. It really helped with the hand-eye thing and getting left and right hands co-ordinated.

I can't say I'm great, but I can manage butt, lap and T joints quite successfully (when flat anyway!)

[landroversforever]

He's passed level 1 which was steel and now he is happily failing level 2 which is Aluminium and stainless .... I think...

Looking forward to the pics so I can see how bad my tig is

Interesting, as I'm sure I was told that stainless is the easiest to TIG?

I picked it up quite quickly, Certainly having done some oxy/acet welding and knowing the basics of how it works before having a go all really helped

[CwazyWabbit]

Interesting, as I'm sure I was told that stainless is the easiest to TIG?

I picked it up quite quickly, Certainly having done some oxy/acet welding and knowing the basics of how it works before having a go all really helped

I think TIG is easier than Oxy/Acet ..... try Aluminium with Oxy/Acet if you want a challenge Ross

[lrfarmer]

just got my self a 3 in 1 inverter welder, plasma cutter, tig. 50amp

i've done mig, stick and gas welding, am looking for would to teaching myself to tig

hoping i can learn

good luck with the rest of your corse.

[yalan]

Sounds good.

I may well follow you there as Crawley isn't too far & I need some tuition - especially with ally.

Do you know when courses start again?

Website seems to say Tues / Wednesdays 6pm-9:30?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Thanks ^^ ................ I'll be needing it !

OK

For TIG Certification City & Guilds there are 3 levels + & then "Coding Exam"

Level 1 All test pieces are 150mm x 50mm

Various welds to perform and pass all are "On the flat bench"

1.Flat Butt Weld -2 bits of metal almost touching - gap thickness of metal

2.Lap Weld - 2 bits of metal overlapping and weled down where they overlap

3.V with V downwards - welding V from the inside

4.V with V upwards - welding the tips of the Vs from the outside

5.T - One piece flat on bench on at 90 degrees weld the gap

6.T V as above but cranked over so welding the angle non flat

This is Level 1, Level one is available as an exam in 3 metals - Steel - Stainless - Aluminium

You have to Pass Level 1 in whatever Metal to progress to Level 2

You can't Do Level 1 Stainless till you have Level 2 steel, you can't do level 1 Ali untill you have level 2 steel and stainless

Before you think tlevel 1 might be easy, on most welds they are "Tested"

Say the butt weld, you hand it in and the nice man places it in a flypress and it iis then whacked big time into a cup shape top see

if there is any part of the weld that splits or shows up, basically the weld should "Stretch" within the bowl shape, so a pretty weld

is not a pass it has to pass the Whack test , many peeps form a que, most walk away shacking there heads.

The deformatiy test are doone on most joints even in level 1

Level 2 all test pieces are now 200mm x 50mm

A world of pain (where I am at the moment) - similar to the above.......... but oh god so different .......

1.Flat Butt Weld -2 bits of metal almost touching - gap thickness of metal but vertical and welded bottom to top

2.Lap Weld - 2 bits of metal overlapping and weled down where they overlap - as above

3.V with V downwards - welding V from the inside - as above

4.V with V upwards - welding the tips of the Vs from the outside - yup your right bottom to top

5.T - One piece flat on bench on at 90 degrees weld the gap - and again

6.T V as above but cranked over so welding the angle non flat and again

This is Level 2, Level 2 is also available as an exam in 3 metals - Steel - Stainless - Aluminium

Level 3 - the nutters level

1.Flat Butt Weld -2 bits of metal almost touching - gap thickness of metal - mounted so welded up side down

2.Lap Weld - 2 bits of metal overlapping and weled down where they overlap - Yup - upside down

3.V with V downwards - welding V from the inside as above bottom to top - as above

4.V with V upwards - welding the tips of the Vs from the outside - yep you guessed it upside down

5.T - at 90 degrees weld the gap - as above

6.piece of tube on flat plate 360 degree weld

This is Level 3, again passes are individually passed in 3 metals - Steel - Stainless - Aluminium

Then you can go "Coded" in each Metal - er non

I want to be at the end of 20 weeks Passed in Levels 1&2 Steel - Stainless - Aliuminium

As to if I get there god knows, but progress is good,

I'll post up the tech info and some of my before and afters to give some idea of progress

The last session I was at was where I was 'signed off' as a pass in all Levels for Level 1, and entered into Level 2................

The 1st weld test on level 2 is the lap weld (one bit over the other) and you weld the seam up starting from the bottom and moving upwards,

its a nightmare.

I found the rod was touching the tip as I moved the top in the torch up, and I just could not see the weld pool. I spent near enough

3 hours with tuition and practise before I got anythingeven close or near right.

I can now "just about" weld a lap joint vertcially, my best effort is still a fail, but next week I think I wil crack it after up to 4+ hours more tuition /practise

er then onto the next one ...............

More (and pics) tommorow - thought I would clarify the route to 'pass' options and what you have to do, its a comprehensive and gruelling course, but already

my welding has improved imensely on types / angles I would not have taken on. The learning curve is truly F vertcial and its very hard work,

after 4 hours attendence you know you have done some work. Its not a 'fluffy' nice course = its up to the indiual to learn and work hard, but I am impressed so far

but the fall outrate is high, peeps just don;t return when they find its tough

The logic behind so much steel work is that the better your knowledge and control of the weld pool the better you will learn / faster learn on steel and ali.

and that if you donot have sound solid robust technicque on steel up to and including Level 2, then ali will not be good. get a Level 2 pass and be

proficiant in all steel welds at level 2 and then Ali is a load easier.

Instructor reckoms I will be Level 2 for at least another 7 weeks yet. Retests then apparently are often done on level one welds and then compared,

the result is the passes in Level 1 look awful compared to a passed Level 2 student doing a Level 1 test piece (if that makes sense)

Nige

PS

Instructor is My age and surronded by "Innits". He often exits my bay laughing after instructing me and I have whilst doing it moved my

baseball cap 180 degrees, and say either "well Sweet" "Sortid" or "Wickid M8" as he gets up to leave ..............

Still fails me tho

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Ok

An idea of 1 evening improvment

Level 2 - Lap weld vertical bottom to top

Couldn't get torch right, couldn't get rod right, couldn't see weld pool

The horror of it all

Not even my 1st attempt - prob effort 6 or 7 .............

Truly Hopeless, missing the join, pool not formed, rod and torch angles wrong - all in all dreadfull (not unusual on Level 2)

Some tuition and practise 3+ hours later :

Still messy wobbly and not very neat but getting there

Have this cracked I hope next week..................................

[landroversforever]

Nige, how are you holding the torch?

I started off holding it with the tip 'straight' and the button turned over to the 'left side' and using my thumb on it... the method I was most comfortable with then. After a could of weeks I went to doing how the welder who showed me the rope did and it was 1000x easier. It was having the button on the 'top' and using it with your index finger running along the 'top' of the torch. It made holding the torch a more delicate operation and therefore far more accurate and steady. Improved my control no end

Orientations in ' ' as they obviously change with the angle torch-button and also what angle you're welding at!

[steve b]

Thats a dramatic improvement Nige , the HAZ lines are much more even and continuous

keep us posted

cheers

Steveb

[Night Train]

Nice.

Sometimes there is no other way then to be taught by someone who knows how to do it and how to teach it.

It will be good reading about your progress and findings.

I did a similar sort of course a decade or more ago. It was a pipe welding course using MMA, MIG, TIG and Gas and all out of position. Every weld that wasn't obviously carp was sectioned and etched so we could see the penetration, or lack of.

After a year I passed all the methods and in all positions.

Sod's law then made sure I did no welding for the next five years!

My MMA and MIG are ok now but no further TIG or gas welding since then.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right

I have had a number of PMs asking for more on this thread, so I will

I have been asked to give more detail as to what TIG is what I have learnt, what has helped etc, which I will do, including some scans of the course work.

One thing the instructor did say was that a Good TIG Glove make a vast difference and that equally one your not happy with can be

the difference between being pleased with a job and hacked off with the results, also that many good welders have "Their" Gloves

and won't don't use anything else

His input was,

Gloves need to be comfortable over everything else

Nice snug fit, not too tight not too loose

Gaunlets to protect wrists - a must

Be able to "Feel" Tig Rod and work through hand

Leather Only

Thicker = More heat protection / But downside is less "Feel"

So, went shopping and tried on gloves and others gloves and asked

Ones I have used for years for MIG welding (They are a TIG Glove) is the Ultima Gold

Nice thin qulaity leather, very comfortable, good "Feel" but christ on close TIG work you feel the heat

from a MotorCycle accdient years ago my fingers have nerve damage so I don't often feel heat - did with these

and its why I started the hunt !

6/10

Next was the Predator, used by many at the course, very solid very well made THICK glove, for me too

thick and also F HUGE, felt like I was TIG welding with a mattress on my hand Would suit big pawed individuals, kevelar

lined so heat difference was amazing - nice glove but thickness didn't like

5/10

Another one at the course used a lot was the SWP Glove - cheap - and it showed

Nice thin leather a bit like the ultima, but fingers were VVV short and they just didn't fit, heat Oooooooooooooow yeah

so a horrible glove (for me)

2/10

Tried some others on, most didn't like, then I got these :

ESAB TIG Pro Gloves

VERY Soft leather tad thicker than the ultimas, will also stretch to fit hand, fingers good length "Feel" best

and bloody good on keeping heat back as also has a very thin lining 1 side. Doesn't feel bulky, and as such I have bought 6 pairs

Not to expensive either

ESAB Part No is 0701415963, got mine off ebay

Next week see how I get on with them, tried at home, well pleased, he is right, a good glove can help more than you 1st would think

I will post up more basic TIG welding info,as asked - and course info later - hope this is of interest

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right then some of the basics

This is very much as I understand things, I am not and never will be a Professional Coded welder, just a enthuiastic Amateur, my target it to be able to weld all steels,

stainless and ALI as well before I stop going. The courses are Levels 1 2 & 3, I will do only 1 & 2 as I really don't fancy learning to TIG ALI Upside down

So, Level 1 - here are the course notes :

er coming soon was 9MB !! - redo later

Level 1 is where everybody starts, if you haven't done any gas welding, or TIG Before you'll be put on Gas welding to learn torch control, as when you (and you will) "Touch Down" the

Tungsten (The expensive tips ) they then need to be reground, gas you just relight (You'll knock the light out) , so quicker to learn, however if you can gas weld

do not think you can TIG, it just means you will be taken off gas and shoved onto a TIG Machine.

Rather than try to explain all about what TIG is and why, have a lookie at this : http://www.mig-weldi...ig-tutorial.htm

If it sounds as if its hard then the answer is yes it is !!

More later

Nige

[ProteuS]

Really enjoying the write ups, I've toyed with the idea of doing a course myself as my TIG work seems to vary from OK to not a chance.

[yalan]

Following this thread I enrolled too.

Picture attached of my 11 attempts at a butt joint. All fail. That is all.

[Landy-Novice]

7 and 9 from the left don't look to bad too me? why they fail?

[yalan]

7 and 9 from the left don't look to bad too me? why they fail?

Irregular / non-continuous penetration. 8 was best effort from that point of view but messed up finish and stop start in the middle.

[lrfarmer]

Irregular / non-continuous penetration. 8 was best effort from that point of view but messed up finish and stop start in the middle.

7and 8 look good other than the stop in the middle

are you using a peddle tig or button on torch tig

[minimog]

did your instructor exsplain about the onion(as you weld to get correct penitration you have a little onion shape at the edge of the weld pool) also when welding ally are you using the same tungson as for stainless/steel as for ally or you swaping to a 2% zirconian

[big len]

Keep up the good work ! What you'll find is once you crack one test piece you have 95% of the skills for all of them. I did this course (here in Belfast) for stainless steel and found that my all 5 (? few years back now) of my passing pieces were all made in 3 consecutive sessions ... I liked it so much I came back the Aluminium the year after and made all the test pieces in the first month ... plenty of spare evenings to make a barbecue out of a gas bottle after that !

Also, hello forums from a long time lurker

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Well an update from mature studunt innit

Last week saw slow progress, whilst Level one was quick n fast level 2 is a differing world !

On leve 1 a "Visual" Pass is all thats required, Level 2 = destruction testing

Also Level 1 is all on the flat, Level 2 is all vertical, as is the learning curve

Here are a couple of pics of efforts that failed

Welded as shown from Bottom to top :

I thought I had sort of improved, this is on the T section welding upright from bottom to top, I must had improved as it was the 1st time the instructor

has said "Looks reasonable" all the others up to then (this evening AND the previous evening prev week) had been a "FAIL" and then a discussion

as to what doing wrong and what to try to do better, on this one when he said "Not bad" - I thought I was on a winner - Nope

He cut the 200mm length into 3 x and kept the centre, which was then cut across the weld to weak in and then "Deformed" on itself to expose the base root of the weld

which he examined and said was a fial :

The RHS is pass, the LHS of the exposed weld is a fail, as you can see from the black gaps, this is basiscally not 100% penetrated.

Frankly I don't care, I have learnt so much and have moved forward in terms of TIG ability on all sorts of angles and things I wouldn't have done / or be able to do

that I am sure in the remaining 16 weeks things will jump forward further !

Half term this week innit - so now further report for a while, I will scan the work docs up and post shortly

Nige