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TIG Welding - A Mature Stuudunts (iinit) Report


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Just out of interest.......

I watched this

, which discusses the various merits of different types of tungsten. I'm not much of a believer in wild claims but thought I would give 2% Lanthanated electrodes a go.

I searched on google but could only find the gold 0.8% in the UK. Ebay was my friend though and I found them in China.

I have been out tonight and given them a go. Definately the most forgiving and long lasting electrode I have used, welding aluminium for an hour and the tungsten looks freshly ground. Very impressed.

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I watched this

, which discusses the various merits of different types of tungsten. I'm not much of a believer in wild claims but thought I would give 2% Lanthanated electrodes a go.

Oh yes - there is no one size fits all tungsten. Pure tungsten is a woeful candidate for AC (aluminium) welding for example, lanthanated or ceriated will work better. The difference is the former is more effective but radioactive. Same story for DC, thoriated and zirconiated, the former is more effective but radioactive.

Generally , these guidelines vary from opinion to opinion so give them all a go for yourself and see what works for you - I would imagine the radioactivity isnt an issue for the volume of welds in this context.

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It now makes an itch like you would believe

Went out for a meal at the pub the other night

At the end of the meal when clearing away the Waitress whispered "You have food on your chin Sir" in me ear :(

At prob circa 17 + a tad "Essex" I thought saying "Its a TIG Burn Innit Love" would prob get me a proper slap :blush:

<sigh>

Nige

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Oh yes - there is no one size fits all tungsten. Pure tungsten is a woeful candidate for AC (aluminium) welding for example, lanthanated or ceriated will work better. The difference is the former is more effective but radioactive. Same story for DC, thoriated and zirconiated, the former is more effective but radioactive.

Generally , these guidelines vary from opinion to opinion so give them all a go for yourself and see what works for you - I would imagine the radioactivity isnt an issue for the volume of welds in this context.

Ive always used zirconiated for ac , thoriated for dc and lanthanated for either(when I have them)

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It now makes an itch like you would believe

Went out for a meal at the pub the other night

At the end of the meal when clearing away the Waitress whispered "You have food on your chin Sir" in me ear :(

At prob circa 17 + a tad "Essex" I thought saying "Its a TIG Burn Innit Love" would prob get me a proper slap :blush:

<sigh>

Nige

Whats with the "tad essex" :(
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I welded a cracked #1 i lnlet port in a TD5 cyl head this morning,torch in through the valve head end, whilst looking down into the manifold end.Having poor eyesight - even with my posh 2.5 lens in the mask, I wondered after a short time why I was having problems with distorted vision... There was so much heat coming up out of the port it had distorted the clear lens of my mask !

In defence of modern technology, my welder is a 200A AC/DC Thermal Dynamics set. Quite the nicest Tig set I've ever used,my first set was a BOC ADR set and at college I used a square wave Miller.The Thermal is just so easy to set up and use I try to find excuses to use it - even for MMA using the foot pedal,brilliant results.

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:D

I iz passed and I iz certificated :rofl: in TIG

Ok, let be a bit more real here, I have a City & Guilds Qualification Levels 1 & 2 in Steel and Stainless, but I feel

like the lad who has just passed his licence, I amy have a bit of paper but am a long way from "Good Tig Welder"

I know that now I have the basic techniques its practise practise and more practise

I am resetting up My TIG assembly at Home, with a dedicated 16amp supply, and will use it where I would maybe have in the past

"Just grabbed the MIG", and use it on stuff I am asked to do, and also going to get a huge boix of off cuts so to practise regaularly

In the meantime I have a pass, here is the bundle of test piece fun, all chopped up, beaten up, folded back etc to inspect weld

and then all are drilled named (for any independant inspection which they have regaularly) and named.....

post-22-0-27154300-1331737275_thumb.jpg

Course Feedback from instructor is as always 101% spot on :

post-22-0-78587400-1331737243_thumb.jpg

welding has improved - Oh Yes inddedy, need to be mindfull of too many amps (apparently a Classic MIG

Welders problem MIG amps do not equate to TIG amps) and I have a habit of too high amps = burnback where

the weld "Cuts" into the surface steel - I have the last few weeks been geting lower and lower and find I have more time,

neater welds and virtually no burn back - and also more time to do the weld !

Lastly to Tack tack and tack and clamp clamp and clamp, stainless seems to have a ability to move like I have never seen ! - so pass and spot on feedback ringing in my ears to remember

So, I now next week enter the wonderfull world of Ali

Prepare for screaming ........we will see how it goes I have 11 weeks Tuition to go :D

Instructor thinks that as I now have a good understand of weld pooling, Key Holes rod and tungsten control that Ali won't

be as a big an issue as I think it might / am always told. He is a top notch tutor, so see what next few weeks bring ....

Nige

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  • 1 month later...

Yeah Bl**dy Gods :)

Been quite quiet for a while, due to Skweel holidays for stundunts Innit :D + Move to Ali :(:blink:

Oh yeah Ali - a whole differing world of pain, but I love it

Some early "runs" just laying down beads with Pure 4043 and 5086 and %5 this and that and the other

SO Many different rods, so much to learn....

Some Ali-Pigeon Offerings :P Basic AC - No Pulse No slope up or down by hand no pedal

Week 1

Yikes.........

post-22-0-88488900-1334747375_thumb.jpg

Basic AC - No Pulse No slope up or down by hand no pedal

Week 2

Little better more control, right rods learnt for right metal(s)

post-22-0-69465500-1334747411_thumb.jpg

Basic AC - No Pulse now with pedal and slope up / down pedal

Week 3

Ac few Joins to try out basic techniques leant from 2 prev weeks

Yes a tad Iffy but ok, practise practise practise...

I could never ever have done this pre course ...

post-22-0-10600900-1334747540_thumb.jpg post-22-0-21853100-1334747554_thumb.jpg

Now, its all very well doing "Test Pieces" - sooner or later you just have to try something for real, otherwise what the F point ?

Enter me last night, I decided why do more on Ali until I was sure I was capable of TIGging up some steel bits that were "Needed" and not just test pieces.

Enter my modded airbox from the 5.2, about 4 hours work saw this :

post-22-0-45158100-1334747656_thumb.jpg post-22-0-38396000-1334747666_thumb.jpg post-22-0-21914000-1334747679_thumb.jpg

So, took it to TIG College, popped in on my workbench, fired up a DC Miller invertor, had a few pracise runs on some 0.8mm metal (what this is) and put

the torch down and starred at it....a little voice behind me said "Well, go on then"..... Mr Instructor .....

It is apparently not uncommon for peeps who have done this course, passed Level 2 still to ask an instructor to do some welding "Because its importnat"

well, this was, and I was nervous at hell of cobbling it up, but, took the torch hand shaking more than nomal :lol:

and after 2 hours I had this :

post-22-0-54921200-1334747822_thumb.jpg post-22-0-18673800-1334747835_thumb.jpg post-22-0-68663400-1334747848_thumb.jpg

Instructor then took it away and dye tested the joins - 2 x minor pin holes so re tigged.

His comments were a more than acceptable job, quite neat and good in places, the less "Pretty" welds were due to me not having equal gaps and levels in set up

(some edges higher than others) his view is the closer the levels are and the gaps the neater the overall finish and ease to weld, Yes a good TIG welder can cope with raised edges etc, but preparation is everything. Got good comments on cleanyness / preparation of steel and also on the end weld - where I end welded the 3mm "Strip" so as to give the Smaco Hose a "Edge" to lock on to.

Penetration was also good, and good weld accuracy, all in all he said I should be chuffed (I was) and its practise and set up that needs to be worked on

But, proves that the Course has had a HUGE impact on my TIG abilities, 0.8mm steel, all curves and its done without much of a drama.

Still got 8 weeks left to go, so Ali here I come again...

Now getting a 16 amp dedicated TIG supply to workshop, so setting up prop Welding area for just TiggyTime :D

Sad I know :P

Nige

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  • 4 weeks later...

Wehay.

Looks like I've just about finished my 5 test pieces successfully.

Here are the 'not quite' passed samples I've taken home to show colleagues. The ones which passed have been destructively tested to check for penetration. They also looked slightly better!

I've gotta say - when it goes well its a great feeling! I think I now prefer ally over steel. Never thought I'd say that.

So here comes the cutting and re-welding coke cans!

And as a word of thanks - Hybrid_From_Hell - ta very much; I'd never have got round to joining a course if it hadn't been for this thread!

post-16296-0-33644000-1337118660_thumb.jpg

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Congratulations on passing mate I'm 3 weeks in to a level 1 TIG course. I passed 1 part in the first week but seem to getting worse as the course goes on it's not as easy as MIG to pick up. I'm doing mine at Gateshead College it's a 12 week course for £200, although if like me you don't have a level 1 education (ie thick) you get it for nothing. I've just done the level 1 MIG and it didn't cost me a penny but if I want to go to level 2 it's £450 haven't decided between MIg and TIG for level 2 yet gonna see how I do in the next few weeks.

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Tig Level 2 is er "A whole different world of Pain" and then when you move to Ali, its like another step jump

The prob now is that the same test pieces you can do with ease in Steel or Stainless seem to just defy the knowledge you THINK you have when

you then try to do them in ali :rofl:

But, I will plod on, so pleased with how much I have learned so far :)

Partly down I have to say to a ****hot instructor, top chap, knowing something well is a skill, being able to impart that knowledge to a begineer

and get them to do it well is an even bigger skill, he has both lucky for me :)

Anyway, lack iof updates as I have been ick and not been until last Tuesday.

This time he suggested that as I am now "sort of competent :blink: " that it would serve me well to have an in depth knowledge of my machine, how to set it up

and a solid understanding of every function on it, so I willingly took him up on the offer, and took my AC/DC unit ensemble to College.

Dragged it in, set it up, and (whilst keeping all the other students happy as well) spent near 3 hours slowly methodically and systematically going through

all the settings, what they do, the sort of "Base" numbers to have for each at a start, the effects of one on another and so on.

Yes, it has a manual with it, BUT, that manual sort of assumes that you understanmd everything, not helpful. As a result I was using only the really base functions

of the machine, now I know what every knob does, why I need it, why and how I can and should adjust it and the effects to look for both good and bad.

When I switch on my machine and it does a self test it sort of lights up with buttons knobs and settings, looks seriously impressive and makes you sort of go "Oooo"

Prob was I was also toatlly confuse as to what most did - now I know and have confidence that I can play with them to suit the job at hand. I'll post up later a

pic iof the machine and then the knowledge I have now as to what these setting are and do, may be useful to others who want to learn.

As I learnt to weld I came to understand and learn some of the things like slop in slope out Crater balance etc, but I mainly when to the machine I learnt on and

set the controls to the numbers I had last time, thats not great for flexibility and getting the most out of the machine / me / job but OK whuilst you learn.

Once you have learnt to sort of TIG weld, he did advise that I needed to learn to adjust the settings to suit the material and job etc esp in Ali, yes it comes with experience

but you have to know which F Knobs to twiddle and what you are trying to achive and how, I didn't in fact some of the function I just plain didn't understand

Do Now :D

In fact I also went and looked at other machines and was able to translate "My Knowledge" to that machine as I could identify how to set it up, the function it / they had etc etc

HUGE learning curve, need to play and practise with these more and more to affect my ability and the result of the job, still learning on a vertical curve !

I then played for the rest of my hours there with the machine, various settings and metals, did some Pulse DC .6mm joins, AC Ali, stainless and on Ali played

with a miriad of settings, now understanding why and the effects they can have good and bad, then back home to tea berr & bed :)

A fab night, feel now I am on my way with some skill in TIG welding. Not been cheap but worth every penny, and more yet to come

:)

Nige

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:lol:

I have had a few "Get on with it please" PMs :lol: so here goes

When you look at a TIG Machine, either to use or buy the number of buttons lights levers or settings can (does) scare the right royals

out of you (did me) and your sort of over whelmed

My AC DC Tig is like that, I was using just the basic setting, the manual is written for a welder with 20+_ years experience who understands

everything, just needs to know where it is, plus the translation from Italian to Engrish didn't help :lol:

So, I have taken a couple of pics of the machine, and will go through what the various settings are, what they do, why you might need them

and how to adjust them / set up

Hopefully this will help anyone who was / is as I was :) ?

If any "Proper Welders" have any issue with my explainations please do feel free to add replies :)

The Unit is a WECO AC?DC 200 AMP TIG with Cooler

Pics :

post-22-0-13724900-1337423616_thumb.jpg

Kin Hell :blink: thats a lot of "Bits" to twiddle :lol:

Ok, lets deal with the bottom half 1st

To start with this unit is a "Watercooled" AC./DC Tig, this means it has a cooler (the bottom unit) and this has a pump and bits which circulates

water in and around and out of the torch head making it cool, means the torch is easier to work with for a long time and also helps you have

smaller torch for the same AMPs as it has a higher rating, smaller torch = for me nicer to use, lighter and get into trickier positions easier.

On the bottom unit from Left to right is

Water in and Out and a On / Off Switch for the cooler

As this is the cooler for this machine the units are interlinked on the back and hence the switch on the cooler is overridden and comes on when the TIG is switched on

which is a sound idea so I don't have tio remeber, other than the above thats the cooler sorted. MANY TIGs don't have coolers, just this does (its an extra)

OK the top of the unit

Forget the main top panel, the next batch are the torch controls and links :

Again from Left to right :

TORCH GAS SWITCH EARTH

For TIG Work (this can also do MMA welding but I never will so won't bother to cover that) the torch is locked into the brass entry port on the left,

then the Gas from the unit to the torch is screwed on

Then the switch connector to make the torch work / on / off screwed in

And the earth clamp plugged in

Once these are fitted it should probably hardly ever be needed to remove, mine are at the mo (and hence the opicture) cos me torch died !!

OK

And now "The fun bit"

The top panel (Hell is about to be entered ..............)

post-22-0-82716900-1337424088_thumb.jpg

Oeer er Missus :blink:

To understand this easier there are a selection of functions here, not all of them are used with all settings, some are setting specific, for example

on welding AC (Ali) the settings that appear are NOT there for Continous DC (steel) Tig etc etc

So, 1st the 5 lights vertical on the Right

From the top

MMA

- I'll never use so bin that

CONTINUOUS TIG

What ALL DC TIG do, basic simple no frills Welding, nothing more and good enough for years before the "tweaks" came in

This is what I have been using a TIG School for last 25 weeks, most of the old machines just have this, and do it well, its the skill of the

operator than will dictate the quality of the weld

PULSED TIG IN DC MODE Slow to Med

Pulsed TIG needs a bit to get your mind around

Pulse is 2 settings, a "Welding current" (a tad higher then if it was continous) and a Base Current (lower) (ie 50 50 mix the 2 and it sort of adds up to

the value of a continous weld amperage - ie if 30 continous 30 and 15 is not going to work, so top amps go to say 35 and then base set at 15or 20

it will end up being about the same overall heat and weld but calm things down and give more time)

You chose (via the menus not yet covered) what top and base current you wnat, then you choose the time each has in percentage terms

so, say you are going to have a Top AMPs of 35 and a Base of 20, with a 50/50 split on slow pulse the split is set then the speed of switching

as you weld, on slow Pulse the variations are all slow to faster, rather than slow to fast, for medium to say Fast thats the next setting down with is

PULSED TIG DC MODE Fast

As above, Top and Base curreents, and switching or time spend on "Each" via Percentage and welding time, and then set speed.

The idea of both Slow and Fast Pulse is control. Lets say your welding something thin, it still can be too easy to shove in too much or too little

heat, result is either no penetration or too much, with the amps set your speed of weld on same metal is sort of decided, take too long and things gets too hot.

One route is to use a pedal, BUT, if you wnat to continouysly speed up and slow down thats a lot of operator input

With pulse the welding priocess slows down

The top current, "Blasts" the metal, forms the weld pool and you dip in your rod, but at the same time the base current reduces the heat and weld pool

with a blast of a lower setting, this gives a ratlly clicky sound as it switches, and you can see the weld pool grow and shrink as the heat goes on and then backs off.

Having tried it I love it, I will prob for all thin stuff use Pulse, fast or slow dependant and the job, as for the setting of percentage and time and speed thats something you

(and I) have to learn but simply as above - thats what buttons 3 and 4 do :)

And then the bottom one

AC TIG

This is ONLY Selected for welding aluminium nothing else

The bottom button is the selector which allows you to scroll through and select the above options

So, far so good ?

Ok

next

Column to the right of it.

This is all about torch settings

You can have the torch work in differing ways, some are bloody complicated some are good !

Top

2TTwo Stroke Lift Arc

Basically "Scratch Start" - Press the button, touch down lift and it starts

Let go of button and it stops

Next down 4T - 4 Stroke Lift

As above Press button, touch down lift and it starts, but to stop you press the button again

Cool !

2 Stroke HF

As with 2T but its a high frequency start, you just hold above the work, press the button and it starts without touching

4 Stroke HF

As above, but 1 press = on and 2 press = off and don't have to hold the button = one less thing to do

I use THIS setting all the time :)

4 Stroke HF Bi Level

his takes some explaining - its F complex, not many machines have it but basically you can program (Like Pulse) 2 differing amp setting

1st press = HF start, and a High (Top) amp setting, 2nd press = switches to base current

3rd Press switches back to top, 4th to base etc etc

Press and hold and it goes to slope out (later :P) or stops

I'd just forget where I was so doubt I'll use this !

The bottom button is the selector which allows you to scroll through and select the above options

And that that column sorted :)

Next "BIG RED KNOB"

Thats AMPS (and shows in the green dispaly box) AND also is the adjustment knob for ALL the adjustable settings when you enter "Menu"

Bottom selector Button LHS = Foot Pedal,

Plug in a foot pedal and select it and the light above lights, adding a foot pedal removes some options and functionalty some becuase its

now done by the pedal, some becuase you just can't have it !

Button LHS Red Cover - Covers where the foot pedal screws in !

OK

Top LHS 2 x Lights :

Top lights up when torch is switched and and your welding, shows visably that the torch is working and power to the electrode

Light below = thermal cut out - machine will trip out until cool enough to start

Next the 3 symbols to the right

Top = AC ONLY = adjusts the frequency of how the AC switches from DC+ to DC- cleaning vs welding, wound up it screams like a piggy

This is a key adjustament for Ali in simple terms, big wide weld vs small and deep penetration, many welders set this to there personal

like and stay with it plus or minus a bit. but its a key setting you learn more of this when you learn welding ali, it do make a huge difference !

High I find gives me concentration of the arc and not a massive heat zone to worry about

Next symbol is AC ONLY Balance

Different to the above, basically set to zero at start, then alter positive to increase cleaning cycle and negative to increase penetration

Next is a Cutey AC ONLY - Electrode Size

Telling the machine the electrode size makes it default to setting more suited to the Tungsten chosen to help basic set up

Mine takes 1.0mm 1.6mm 2.0mm 2.4mm 3.2mm 4.0mm

As a Guide I use 1.6 for most stuff, 2.4 for heavy work where I wnat to pour heat into it, whatever the metals being Tigged

Ok, and now the "Rollercoaster of Fun" part

This is a multi function selector, dependant on what you are welding DC Vs AC etc and what other settings you may have ie Pedal will didcate what appears here

if they do appear then they must be set with a value as the will affect the end resuklt, pressing the button below the green amps dispaly just

moves through the sinewavey shape stopping for user values at each point where it needs one

So, at the start, 1st thing is :

PreGas Time

a value in seconds, that when you press the trigger gas flows BEFORE the unit fires the ignition (only HF start not scratch start)

Useful for stainess to aviod ciontamination on start up

Next SLOPE IN

If you are welding something thin, and start right on the edges, the "Wack" of amps of the end can cause problems as the current is just too

much, so SLOPE IN is a current to start at and then wok up to the main current. say you have 40 amps as the welding current you might chose

20 amps slope to 40 over say 4 seconds, it will then start at 20, and build up to 40 over 4 seconds, giving you a chance to weld the end bits,

for the weld pool and by the time its up 40 amps away you go, amps and time are adjustable

Next - Main welding current

Next 2nd welding curent if in Bi welding torch mode

Base current if Slow or fast pulse

Percentage of time on Top Base currents if in pulse mode

Switching speed within slow or fast limits

Slope Down time and then slope down current

Just like slope in but at the end, when you get to the end of the piece of work the heat will be a travelling, the end of it can be such that

the heat and current is too much and you burn back the end of the work, select 4T on the torch, and when you get to near the end press the button

and the torch will then switch into slope down and drop the amps to X over a period of Y seconds. Slope in and out can have differing values,

remember Slope in metal is cold, slope out your hot as hell and trying not to blow the end metal away ! so slope In will be closer to main amps

and slope out far lower due to excessive heat at edge work

Final Current *(called crater) over and above slope out a final "Finishing current"

Post gas

How long after the torch has shut down does gas still come out

Good to extend tungsten life, and help weld pool at the end cool without contamination

And thats it, thats what the miriad of settings are and do on a TIG set, many will have different buttons in different places, but they will be a mix of the above

now you hopefully know what they are if you going to buy or use a tig you have a clue !

Hope this is of interest

Nige :)

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That's nothing for knobs/buttons/lights Nige :P

Sadly not all coolers are linked into the TIG set and its very frustrating when the thermal cutout stops you until you realise what a numpty you are!

Torch settings, are all complicated and you have lost me slightly Nige... The one I used was HF I believe, with click button and it slopes in, then press and hold to slope out. what type is that?

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<p> </p>

<div>4 Stroke HF Bi Level</div>

<div>his takes some explaining - its F complex, not many machines have it but basically you can program (Like Pulse) 2 differing amp setting</div>

<div> </div>

<div>1st press = HF start, and a High (Top) amp setting, 2nd press = switches to base current</div>

<div>3rd Press switches back to top, 4th to base etc etc</div>

<div> </div>

<div>Press and hold and it goes to slope out (later ) or stops</div>

<div> </div>

<div>I'd just forget where I was so doubt I'll use this !</div>

<div> </div>

<div>I know this might sound a bit mad, but now you know how to tig weld Nige, i would try and learn to use this setting.<img alt=":ph34r:" class="bbc_emoticon" src="http://forums.lr4x4.com/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.png" title=":ph34r:" />  It does sound a bit complicated at first, but you have a far better control over the weld pool with it.  Also does the welder have the facility to store programs? If so, once the high/low slope up/down has been inputted, it can easily and quickly setup for the same material a few months down the line, just plug in turn the dial to the required program and all is sweet, tweaking each program a little for different thicknesses of metal.</div>

<div> </div>

<div> </div>

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