simonr Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Barry, undoubtedly it is! But as I understand it, the heater contains the matrix and two flaps. The hot cold flap directs air through or around the matrix and the other one shuts off the heater altogether so no air flow at all. I figure if you set the heater to cold, the PTC heater should not me heating the matrix (much). Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I should have known you would have thought about that Simon Where as I obviously hadn't thought it through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Simon, if you look for a product to sell, why dont you go for exhaust heating? The energy source is there (which is wasted anyway). A bit like this, but exhaust to air heating: http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2a223a2e3c Daan X-Downpipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I really like the idea of an exhaust heater, it's something i've considered doing myself, if made out of stainless there's no real risk of the inner pipe leaking to the heat exchanger and the heat is almost instant once the engine is running. If you then used a seperate blower fan, like a bilge blower, you'd then just have to duct the heat into the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 X-Downpipe Surely it would be X-ost....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 For an exhaust heater, you could loosely box in the exhaust manifold and duct this to the side of the plenum chamber underneath the intake on the wing. In the winter, you block the intake on top of the wing so air is drawn past the manifold instead? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Si, that would work but you would have to be certain of the gas tightness of your gaskets etc, the idea of a simple heat exchanger (i.e. one pipe inside another) made of stainless so that it wouldn't rust through would virtually guarantee gas tightness and would be just as effective. I would have thought there would be a market for this sort of thing so im surprised nobody has picked up on it. As fas as i'm aware it's only beetle's and vw campers that use the exhaust for the cabin heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 When I built the the exhuast for The 109, I tried to keep a straight run under the second floor. My plan is to wrap it in microbore copper and feed it up to a heater matrix under the second row seats with a seperate fan. I thought a wrapping of insulation would help. It will hold mositure and rot out the steel, but my plan is to replace the exhaust in stainless as it rots out anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 I fitted the PTC heater today. I drilled 4 holes in he heater and passed a cable tie through each. I also cut down the plastic surround of the heater a little so it will fit through the hole in the wing top. I drilled a pair of holes in the plenum chamber for the wires to poke through. Pass the heater through the hole then poke the ends of the cable ties through the heater vent cover. Use another 4 cable tie ratchet ends to pull the heater up tight against the underside of the vent. Job done! The Voltage sensitive relay has not arrived yet - so cannot complete the wiring. But I connected it up to the battery temporarily and it seems to work fine. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy mad Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I have Citroen c6 heater element installed just I font of the original matrix works great thinking of removing the water one matrix totally Has 3 heat settings heats up in seconds and it's about the perfect size to fit in the heater box on the defend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 How big is the C6 heater? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schneide Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It look good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddychris300tdi Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I love this, I need to replace the matrix in my disco and might see if there is any chance of doing something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I fitted a snow cowl to my intake and it makes a big difference to demisting when it's raining, yes I know there's a drain in the plenum but a lot of the rain must still make it to the heater where it turns to vapour and gets blown on to the screen. I think it would help with your mod too Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 I had an unexpected problem (related to Simon's post) with the heater. If you switch it on while it's raining - suddenly you get masses of steam coming out of the vents! It took about 5 sec for the cab to look like a Sauna! JasonG4110 kindly gave me a Snow Cowl which has made it much better! Even without the heater I think it demists quicker in the rain and the air is warmer! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Roughly on-topic question, does anyone know how much current a '89 defender fan should draw, and what current the wiring is rated to? I always thought the fan on the 90 was pants, after taking the dash apart and putting it back together properly, I realised that the switch was only travelling to the second click on full travel (first click is flap fully open, second click fan speed low, third fan on full), and that there was a whole extra full speed setting which previously couldn't be selected! This blows a reasonable amount of air, equivalent to a 'modern' car - however it blows the (standard) 10A fuse after a few mins. Changing the fuse and doing some quick diagnosis this morning before my commute shows the fuse glowing cherry red as soon as you select full speed. Bearing in mind everyone complaining that the fan is carp compared to a modern car, and the fact that it blows 10A fuses after a few mins, has it been tampered with or is there a wiring fault somewhere? When I had the heater box apart it looked to be a standard fan and span freely... I don't think it's a short as that would blow the fuse much quicker, but I'm loathed to stick a higher amp fuse in there if it's going to cause a wiring fire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 blades or glass? think from memory a 15A but look inside the lid of the fuse box (for the fan symbol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Glass. The standard fuse is shown as 10A for the fan inside the fuse cover, but it must be drawing more than that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Any chance the fan is a bit siezed? That could increase the current draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 It seemed to spin well enough, and when it's on full pelt it certainly seems to shift a lot of air... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MECCANO Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Si Sorry if you have stated it in this thread already ( i did look) But whats the porpose of a voltage sensitive relay. Stop you running the battery to low? TSD There seems to be alot of cables on these things, are they multiple elements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Jon As I found out to my cost glass fuses are not all equal, some are sold as holding current and some as blow current. The originals are holding current, i.e will hold 2.5A and blow at 5-6A, the halfords jobbies blew at 2.5A. Sidelights were fine until I connected the trailer up.... Sorry for the off topic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Jon As I found out to my cost glass fuses are not all equal, some are sold as holding current and some as blow current. The originals are holding current, i.e will hold 2.5A and blow at 5-6A, the halfords jobbies blew at 2.5A. Sidelights were fine until I connected the trailer up.... I've just found out the same thing - it also seems that the fuse boxes are labelled as holding current, not peak. Later ones with blade fuses have 15A fuses for the blower... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I completed my latest heater upgrade experiment at the weekend... I replaced the on/off air flap in the heater box with one of the PTC heater modules used in a lot of modern cars to give instant demist. This ones from a Peugeot 807 I think, and it was cheap on the bay because of the obvious (and irrelevant) damage to the wiring. It's a little bit longer than the width of the heater box, so CNC'd a couple of brackets to mount it nicely... All mounts up nicely, with an 80A Albright solenoid on the fan housing, to switch it on with. Since the Ibex doesn't have a rear screen demister, I can use that switch and get a meaningful warning light on the dashboard. I have to wait for some duff weather to find out if its really any good, but on a warm afternoon this weekend, the output air was noticeably warmer than ambient in 15-20 seconds from startup, with the fan running at full speed. Startup current is close to 100A, dropped to a stable value just below 50A with the fan running at full chat, so typically around 800W (Best not forget and leave it switched on!) Being PTC, it will draw more current as the intake air temperature falls, trying to maintain the temperature of the heater element. I have just purchased one of these from the bay of eeee. Said to have come from a Pug 307, but looks identical to the one above. I wouldn't be surprised if all frog cars may use the same unit. My question regards wiring - the heavy brown wire has a ring terminal fitted, so assumed to be +ve. The other 3 wires are in a multi-pin connector housing. Are they all -ve for 3 separate sections of the heater, or some other arrangement? Can anyone shed any light before I turn it into a single use heating device? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Slow replies, sorry wasn't following the thread recently... There are 3 heater modules in the unit, one side of each is common, so 4 wires. The large brown will be positive in PSA setups, but PTCs aren't polarity sensitive so wire it however suits your install. I just paralleled all the elements in mine, as I had some suitable solenoids for switching the enormous load. If you wire the brown to starter motor feed as I did (via a big hairy fuse of course!), you could use three 30A relays to give you three stages of heating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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