Mr Noisy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 I used a Magneti Marelli sensor because I couldn't get the Ford sensor to face the centre line of the trigger wheel (and still use those two convenient bolts) no matter how I tried to jigger around with bracketry. I've always wondered how Nigel's bracket seemed to manage it until now. Obviously isn't terribly important with MS and EDIS All becomes clear!! I'm going to get it as best I can then see if it runs. It's digital, so it's either 100% happy or 100% unhappy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Bit of rust prevention on the exhaust. Might be a waste of paint! And MAF adaptor finished and fitted up: Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 All becomes clear!! I'm going to get it as best I can then see if it runs. It's digital, so it's either 100% happy or 100% unhappy!! There are enough people running it that it isn't obviously an issue, if you shim it into the right position that must be sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 ...... It's digital, so it's either 100% happy or 100% unhappy!! I think VR sensors are actually analogue and it's the subsequent processing that makes the digital output. The output strength varies with speed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor so it might be intermittently 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I think VR sensors are actually analogue and it's the subsequent processing that makes the digital output. The output strength varies with speed. http://en.wikipedia....luctance_sensor so it might be intermittently 100% That is why there can be issues with the angle of incidence of the sensor to the individual teeth, it has something to do with the way the signals are shaped, an ideal being the clear on-off provided by a sharp clean edge with a sensor face perpendicular to that circumference. Luckily our V8's don't need to work at 9000rpm much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 That is why there can be issues with the angle of incidence of the sensor to the individual teeth, it has something to do with the way the signals are shaped, an ideal being the clear on-off provided by a sharp clean edge with a sensor face perpendicular to that circumference. Luckily our V8's don't need to work at 9000rpm much Hmmm yes true, so if it is analogue then basically you want the signal output to basically appear visually on a scope how the teeth look themselves, nice sharp on/off like you say. If the angle is not right it will be more of a zig zag, literally as it would feel if you ran a finger over the trigger wheel at an angle. However I assume the EDIS interpolates the results and decides what's on and what's off. IE it is either 100% happy or unhappy with what it "sees" at the VR sensor, despite the fact that the VR signal might be slightly undesirable. As above, will get it best as and see how it goes! In the middle of running loom right now, have taken a few notes along the way and will post up later Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I don't know of anyone who has had these issues with MS and EDIS so I guess with this system it can't be an issue. Other systems are more picky. It is less about high speed running mis-fires and more about starting problems which figures with the signal strength at lower rpm's with VR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 I don't know of anyone who has had these issues with MS and EDIS so I guess with this system it can't be an issue. Other systems are more picky. It is less about high speed running mis-fires and more about starting problems which figures with the signal strength at lower rpm's with VR Yes I have wondered how it gets on with getting fired up when there is a very minimal reluctance at low speeds, but I guess it MUST be more than sufficient, it's pretty well tried and tested!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I actually had my MS setup running with only one wire attached to the VR sensor. The other connection had come undone. It actually ran absolutely fine. Just the starter motor didn't spin it over fast enough to start it. As a get home fix I just bump started it and off I went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 ANYWAY gennulmen, tonight's roundup! Spent this evening simply doing the first fix on the loom. All the wires are in now, I'm just waiting on engine parts so that I can put that back together, and then I can start fitting engine connectors and do the second fix on the engine itself, so I can then more accurately get the lengths right and tape them in place. Here's the pics: The wiring diagram was superb, very easy to follow, a nice little job this one. I had to choose one of my own colours for the lambda because the diagram only specifies for 3 wire sensors. Used blue for signal, white/purple for heater supply and black as signal ground as per the diagram. I had already run a main relay switched live supply at the weekend in red cable, so I had a coil of white going spare. I used this as heater ground seeing as it was similar to white/purple. Sorted. Also downloaded innovate lc1 instructions and made a plan regards how to wire that up, can use the same 4 wires for that also. I decided i am going to connect the orange colour pwm valve switched supply into the white/purple supply from the fuel pump relay when I come to that stage, it seemed suitable enough. I decided to run a separate earth from the battery for the EDIS unit after reading a few posts about keeping coil earth separate from ECU/sensor earths etc. basically I have a fat earth direct from the battery which feeds the fuse/relay board, and then EDIS will have its own earth. That is all earths then taken care of On a similar note, because i have the fuse and relay board, there is no dedicated blue/yellow supply from the main relay for the EDIS unit, so I will have to pick up the feed at the injector supply terminals on the fuse and relay board. Same circuit but a bit of a messy solution. I will see if there is any other option when I get to it. Regards the wiring loom kit, on the written instructions where the wire contents are listed, slate/orange is listed as "SAW on EDIS 8 to VR sensor" where I'm sure it should be "PIP on EDIS 8 to ECU" Likewise, pink is listed as "PIP from EDIS 8 to ECU" whereas I'm sure it should be "SAW on EDIS 8 to ECU" Also, slate/orange is supplied in 6 metres whereas pink is supplied in 3. I would say that slate/orange only needs to be 3 metres aswell. On the contrary, we have 12 metres of green/slate for injectors 1357 and 12 metres of slate/red for injectors 2468, but we only have 12 metres on brown/yellow to supply all 8 injectors whereas 24 is required as 4 cable runs are made and I only just had enough at 3 metres each whereas I've got loads of injectors negative left! I must say now the job is starting to come together I am really enjoying the build, looming up is something I am very fond of doing. Plenty of work to do yet though, I fear my switch panel the most I think!! Just wish the bloody post office would hurry up! Early night tonight boys, cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 I actually had my MS setup running with only one wire attached to the VR sensor. The other connection had come undone. It actually ran absolutely fine. Just the starter motor didn't spin it over fast enough to start it. As a get home fix I just bump started it and off I went. Just a pulse was required I guess! Maybe the other wire wouldn't have been so lucky??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 And a huge thankyou to Nige by the way for his continued help and support so far, above and beyond the call of duty I'd say. Top bloke, lovely MS kit. Hats off to you mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientGeek Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I pointed out that error in the wiring list to Nige nearly 2 years ago. I've come the conclusion its some kind of test to see if you are paying attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 I pointed out that error in the wiring list to Nige nearly 2 years ago. I've come the conclusion its some kind of test to see if you are paying attention. Lol, yeah maybe Nige is just employing his sense of humour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Bit of trimming required to achieve a few extra mm but you get the idea. Also note the rough position of the cable glands, these will be fitted as high up the box as possible so that the cable is encouraged to run over the components. The large gland will take the engine loom in its entirety. the small gland will take the Battery +, Battery -,Ignition +, EDIS earth, MAP tube and VR hopefully. i have a selection of glands just in case. The main loom almost in its entirety travels left out of the gland and the round and down to the fuse/relay board. Some wires will travel past it toward the EDIS. The small gland exits very close to the main power connection on the FR board and also the MAP port. The VR and EDIS earth will travel straight up the middle and direct to EDIS, to keep separate from the engine loom. The components will be screwed to the case and bracketed where necessary for extra retention. Not sure where the box will go yet but somewhere under the dash!! The D37 link will come out of the ECU, towards the box wall and then up over the ECU, coming around past the EDIS plug and down into the fuse/relay board. EDIS wiring will remain loose, some will go to the loom, other to the board. I will have a couple of junctions somewhere to join earths and also the various components on the fuel pump circuit. That's the plan anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Kinda like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Why are you putting the edis module in there? why not keep that under the bonnet? If you do keep the edis in there make sure you use a screened cable for the signals and try not to run the edis wiring in close proximity to the MS harness as the coil wires can induce rogue signals into the MS harness if you are not careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 ^^ To add to above - EDIS is waterproof as it the EDIS Plug Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Ah ha! Right, that changes things then. EDIS will go elsewhere! Any ideas? Is it best to keep EDIS as close to the coils as possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 This took about two hours! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Nice work Is there enough heatshrink bits in that pack ? did the other bits arrive ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Re the EDIS - I would say somewhere inside easy to get to / protected Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hi Nige Yeah loads of heatshrink thanks Nothing arrived today though unfortunately Now I'm stuck with this EDIS problem. Need a decision cos I'm going to make the changes tonight, where applicable. I was simply putting the EDIS in the box because it can stay close, and dry. I understand that the coil power leads could cause issues with the low power circuits. For instance on opening up the EDIS stubby loom I noticed that SAW and PIP are in screened pairs, as was the VR cable. The screens we grounded to earth, not pin 7 as is in the MS instructions. So, options: • Leave it as it is because it will be fine, neat, tidy, easy and efficient to wire up. SAW and PIP cables will be 6 inches long. • Remove the EDIS from the box and put it next to the ECU like a lot of people do and run the cables along the loom as you would expect. SAW and PIP cables are not supplied as screened in the MS kit and in this case will be vey short anyway, barely 12 inches or so. • Mount EDIS on the opposite side of the dashboard, and run loom to the coils separately, reducing contact with MS loom considerably. Could even run SAW and PIP to the ECU with left over screened VR cable. Should I connect the SAW/PIP screen to pin 7 or to ground, or??? • Mount EDIS in the engine bay, as is often suggested/recommended, run screened SAW/PIP to the ECU, run cables to the coils reducing contact with MS loom where possible. Please let me know what is the best option! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Right I'm gonna go for it. Have done some googling and I learnt that: EDIS needs to heat sink on its mounting. SAW and PIP need to be screened and the screen needs connecting to pin 7 also. As such, EDIS will be mounted in the engine bay on the upper inner wing. Will crack on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Loving the write up Mr Noisey, nice to have a good meaty thread to get my teeth into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.