Mr Noisy Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hello everyone! Ok so I wondered about the coil bracket and looked at some pics, found some front mounted! Anyway no bother will swap that, thanks for the info, but now I will have a bolt problem cos I was hoping to use my stainless. Anyway, not your problem! Regards saw and pip, nope, they are not supplied shielded BUT the original EDIS loom has them shielded and what's better than belt & braces?! And for the record, shims and spacer received so that's today's job + injector loom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingy Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 And as for the post office your shims and bungwent out 3 days ago 1st class recorded :0( Any news on my 4.6 coil bracket Nige, waiting 2 weeks now Great Thread Sam, i wish that i would have got the built up ECU instead of the diy one. My electrical guru (geek) at work has only delayed the biuld by 12 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Any news on my 4.6 coil bracket Nige, waiting 2 weeks now Great Thread Sam, i wish that i would have got the built up ECU instead of the diy one. My electrical guru (geek) at work has only delayed the biuld by 12 months 12 months?!?!! **** that I'd be buying one and selling the unbuilt kit!! Apart from that, thankyou for the comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 So, tonight's work: Have just moved the coil bracket, thanks Nige! Brother/long suffering occasional helper is just opening up the gaps in the plugs to .040" and I'm about to get on with the injector loom. Then, we'll have another go at the trigger wheel, do a final set on the VR and then fit the VR terminals. Will place them as per zardos's suggestion but can't risk clipping them into the plug just yet! Too scared! Not sure how much more work we'll fit in tonight but here's the forward plan: We've got the TPS connector to fit and I'm pretty sure the engine loom is then done. Will then have a look at fitting my ECU into its waterproof box properly, more room to play with now the EDIS is elsewhere, but need to work out where to fit the glands and where the cable junctions can go. Tbh not entirely sure how to do the cable junctions but tbh seeing as its only supply power and earths (no sensor earths) I might use choc block. Hmm actually I have lambda earths to deal with. Not sure. Anyway will see how it goes in the job. Could solder them all but I'd like to make the kit easily removeable, but I suppose all the earths will be on a plug at the other end so there no reason why I can't solder stuff in the waterproof box. Still leaves the fuse board and ECU removeable. Blatantly thinking out loud here! Right best get back to it, pics will follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Don't forget the HT leads Sam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Decided to call it a day! Get an early night and make a good crack at it tomorrow. Has been a hell of a week! Anyway tonight: • Gapped the spark plugs to .040"/1.02mm, they were 0.8mm before. • Adjusted the coil bracket! • Did the injector wiring. • And did the TPS plug! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Keeping a note of times per "job" Sam ? As that S discussed would be hugely. Useful fog others ? As for me I am already seeing things I can improve for others around maybe extra build pics and instructions etc ANC maybe jiggle wiring kit contents a bit - will wait gill your "done" on wiring and then see Looking forwards to more of thud very god thread as and when - not giving printers for obvious reasons but here if you need Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hi Nige! Regards timing, sorry yeah I should have made it more clear. I only work on my car after we finish work at the garage, so for instance all this week we have had daily updates and each day has been 6 to 7 hours work. Last Sunday absorbed around 8 hours but that wasn't MS, today I'm hoping to get plenty in! And yep no problem Nige, I know you're only a phone all away if the **** hits the fan! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Oh and Nige I would say I am done on wiring now, as far as I can see I have run every wire, just finish up in the engine bay, sort the ECU box and then start wiring the relay board in. Just need to run a tacho cable, need to know about that tacho out!! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 You're gonna need some sleep soon mate BTW, those timings you gave above are they for just you working on the install or do they include your brothers time as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Not to revive the argument about how EDIS/VR Sensors work, but it's explained in the MS manual and on B&G's site here: http://www.bgsoflex.com/mjl/mjl_edis_summary.html The VR sensor detects the zero-crossing point of the waveform (so when the wave goes from positive to negative or vicky verky), it's not measuring volts, shape of the wave or anything else like that. Also, EDIS is very good and quite tolerant, so I'd really not worry too much about perfect positioning - it will either work or it won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 ..... The VR sensor detects the zero-crossing point of the waveform (so when the wave goes from positive to negative or vicky verky), ..... Not starting an argument here boss but that page says EDIS detects the zero crossing point of the VR sensor generated waveform. Just wanted to clarify that for anyone else reading this thread in the future, I imagine it was just a typo from you. The EDIS system is a wasted-spark setup (i.e. two spark plugs fire which are separated by 360 "cycle-degrees" of a 4-cycle engine), so there is no synchronization with the camshaft. Near the crankwheel (radially-situated from crankwheel centerline with a 0.030 to 0.060 inch gap) is a Variable-Reluctance (VR) sensor - this sensor produces a bi-polar signal very similar to a sine-wave which is generated by the rotating crank wheel. This signal polarity is such that when the tooth tip is exactly pointing to the VR sensor, the resultant VR waveform is at zero potential falling from a positive to a negative polarity - i.e. a zero-crossing with a negative slope. This resultant signal is fed directly into the EDIS module, indicating crankshaft position (every 10 degrees crank). The thing to note here is that the EDIS module handles all VR signal processing. In fact, the EDIS module has a built-in VR signal hysteresis - when the VR signal is transitioning from negative-to-positive polarity (next tooth is approaching), the signal must reach 0.5 volts positive before the EDIS module will "arm". It then will "trigger" when the signal passes back thru zero from a positive-to-negative transistion, when the VR tip is aligned with the crank wheel tooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonost24 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Decided to call it a day! Get an early night and make a good crack at it tomorrow. Has been a hell of a week! Anyway tonight: • Gapped the spark plugs to .040"/1.02mm, they were 0.8mm before. • Adjusted the coil bracket! • Did the injector wiring. • And did the TPS plug! Cheers! Just what I needed. The second pic answers my question about injector wiring.Thanks and keep the pics coming very useful. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 You're gonna need some sleep soon mate BTW, those timings you gave above are they for just you working on the install or do they include your brothers time as well? Hi mate, yeah I know, but tbh if I'm getting 6/7 hours sleep a night I can handle it. It's not great but who buys Megasquirt and expects sleep?! The times quoted are effectively for one man. I mean, I am present for 99% of the work, but Tom is a holder/passer/finder/reader/explainer etc etc, so it definitely speeds the job up, but it's not like he is doing one job and I'm doing another, just much easier soldering very small terminals if you've got a mate to hold it in the pliers etc. I'm sure the vast majority of people could grab a mate for the tricky bits (but then you stop to chat etc) or do it solo (but then it takes you slightly longer) so I reckon the times would work out the same. It's just "better" with a helping hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Just what I needed. The second pic answers my question about injector wiring.Thanks and keep the pics coming very useful. Jon Wonderful, just what I like to hear! My pleasure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Proud owner: Innovate LC-1 with gauge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Oh and Nige I would say I am done on wiring now, as far as I can see I have run every wire, just finish up in the engine bay, sort the ECU box and then start wiring the relay board in. Just need to run a tacho cable, need to know about that tacho out!! Thanks! I run my DigiDash tacho off pin 2 (IDM) of the EDIS module and this works fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hi zardos Thanks for the tip! To all intents and purposes the IDM should work, it also however has a diagnostic pulse to tell the ford ECU that all is well which could confuse things. The EDIS 4 and 6 have CTO (clean tacho out) but the 8 does not because there's not enough room on the plug!! Nige asked the ECU builder to pinout a CTO on the ECU plug and the ECU says this: But apart from the fact that it might mean CTO is on Spare 1, we can't figure what JS0 means! Anyone any idea?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The IDM diagnotics pulse is so insignificant nothing should show it. From http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html "The EDIS module processes this into a 512us pulse on the IDM line during operation. When the engine is stopped, but the Key is turned on (KOEOff), the EDIS module emits a 64us pulse every 262.144ms to indicate proper operation. Because of this, any tachometer operation from this line must filter out the 64us pulses." So only when the engine is not running but the EDIS is powered, it your tacho detects the much shorter pulse then it will show ~4 rpm My digidash does not show the 4rpm as the 64us is too short for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonost24 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Wonderful, just what I like to hear! My pleasure As they say " a picture says a thousand words" - cheers mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 The IDM diagnotics pulse is so insignificant nothing should show it. From http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html "The EDIS module processes this into a 512us pulse on the IDM line during operation. When the engine is stopped, but the Key is turned on (KOEOff), the EDIS module emits a 64us pulse every 262.144ms to indicate proper operation. Because of this, any tachometer operation from this line must filter out the 64us pulses." So only when the engine is not running but the EDIS is powered, it your tacho detects the much shorter pulse then it will show ~4 rpm My digidash does not show the 4rpm as the 64us is too short for it. Sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Ultra pic heavy update on its way!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 JS0 will be a pad on the main board near the cpu. Various JSX (substitute X with a number of your choice) pads can do different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Evening gentlemen So, started work today at around 11am, cracked on with refitting the Y pipe. That was pretty uneventful. I have started using Loctite 5980 Quick Gasket instead of exhaust paste. It stays flexible and seems to handle temps very well. Anyway, after that Tom arrived and we got on with sorting out the trigger wheel/VR problem. Nige very kindly sent me some more spacers to attempt to get the position better. I purchased some longer bolts over the weekend to complete this task. I chose a cap head so that i could use an allen bit instead of a spanner on the pulley front side, as it was generally very awkward with hex bolts. I went for M8x65mm, hardened (possibly harder than 8.8 actually because they cut very easily with the grinder). Obviously i bought them long with the intention of cutting down. So anyway, here's some pics. Firstly stripped and cleaned the pulley again: The issue was that i was going to run out of spigot on the pulley, could have done with 2x 4mm spacers really but there was not enough spigot. We went for the maximum which turned out to be 1x 4mm and 2x 1.2mm. Even then it was CLOSE to coming off the spigot so we thought we'd wash the greasy coating off the parts to see if we could gain a few thou: Seems it didnt make any noticeable difference, but hey, it came out alright in the end! So. Pop the new bolts in, with washers both sides seeing as we've got length to spare: Align it and bolt it up nice (then whip the ends off with a grinder): We fitted it up and the trigger wheel spacing was still out. Had to add around 1.5mm of washers behind the VR bracket and the spacing was perfect BUT then we found that we couldnt get the VR close enough/at a good enough angle of incidence. Had to work the VR bracket slightly with the file to allow the bottom fitting to come even closer to the wheel: Once we had got that sorted and managed to get the sensor in a good spot, we then backed it right off and span the engine over to check for any runout. There was around 5 thou runout which i was happy with. Next we brought the VR back and tightened the bracket, leaving an airgap of 0.4mm +/- 0.1mm ish. With a sigh of relief, we then set to soldering up the VR plug. Going on info from zardos (thanks mate) we were confident that Pin 5 EDIS was Pin 1 VR, which on my sensor was the rearmost pin. Once that was done the belts went back on and were tensioned: Nice After that I decided to do the HT leads. I also decided that i would do a full how-to on them because by rights you should not be able to do them without a crimper but i found with the right technique and some determination it can be done without a £70 crimp tool. The downside was that 8 leads took 3 hours!! First, grab some cable: Get some silicone spray. dashboard shine etc: Lube up the boot and the cable end: Then slide the boot on. We found that, in a similar fashion to anal sex, too much lube isnt enough. Its a real struggle without plenty of spray! Next, slot the cable in the terminal and measure how much insulation to cut. Do this carefully with a very sharp blade, then remove the insulation: Fold back the core and then slot the cable back into the terminal, keeping it tight so the core doesnt get loose: Now, here's the key. First you have to fold the end of the teeth with the pliers, so that when you squeeze the whole tooth the sharp ends jab deep into the cable: Squeeze it in: And get this: Now i used the round part on the pliers to work around and round up the crimp, keeping the teeth tight but making sure it all fits in the boot nice: Repeat for the other two crimps More lube: And pull the boot back a little: Dont go too far because you will possibly pull the terminal off, so slot it onto the plug and carefully push/pull/work the boot down: Working up from the plug, fit the cable to your guides along the way: Gauge the length required at the coil: Then hold the cable at the centre point: Then cut around 15mm more, to account for the fold back: Megasquirt workshops, powered by Coca Cola: Next, fit the boot clip, the boot will follow: More lube And shove it through: Now, important, wipe any lube off the end, else it will slip out of the terminal: Same again, cut the insulation, but this time slightly more than the spacing would suggest, to account for the fold-around: Another important point, make sure the terminal is in the same line as the boot, so that when you fold it it slips into the bot without the boot needing twisting: Little extra needs trimming off: Clamp down with pliers, just for starters: To get this: Now, you need a (basic) crimper equipped with a pointed crimp: Use this to dig the ends into the insulation, similar idea to before: And then shape it up with the pliers. Will make a mess of the insulation but at least you know youre getting a good bite: Bend the terminal just less than 90 degrees: LOTS more lube! And then carefully push into the boot. Mixture of push terminal and pull cable, be very careful or it will come away: Align in the centre when done: And slip the cover over: Check the retainer clip has slotted into the recess: Check the resistance with a multimeter, we got figures between 3.6 and 6.2 on the 20 Kohm scale, the longer the lead the higher the resistance of course: And we're done: So then, pop the terminal on the coil: And then fasten it down and set the lead: Connect the plug boot: Clip into your lower guide: And then your upper guides: THEN, rinse and repeat 7 more times, and you will have: Cheers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 JS0 will be a pad on the main board near the cpu. Various JSX (substitute X with a number of your choice) pads can do different things. Ah ha! very handy info, that explains it then, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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