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Upgrade LR Axles or Replace?


Warthog

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Ali,

I haven’t had chance to read all the background info yet……………….. I assume that is a small block 351W 5.8L Windsor …….. the Ford Yank V8 as opposed to the V6 POS that was referred to as a Windsor (but was actually a cologne) in the UK……….. :rolleyes:

The Ford US Windsor engine plant has turned out some good kit over the years. ;)

Ian

Yeah your right its the Yank lump

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Well I think I may be able to help settle this argument a little…………

As promised, I have just spoken to a major 4x4 breaker (all makes) in the South West ……….

A Late Patrol for breaking may have up to a 100K on it……….. the breakers tend not to get them in and the axles are deemed as bullet proof ………..Late Patrol axles go for £1000 ………… a late Patrol diff will set you back £600............ I got the impression that late Patrols are not cheap to buy for breaking ....... I assume a 'late' to be a GR

Early Patrols are not so easy to come by ……… very few of the real early ones were imported and most have succumbed to tin worm by now ………….. and getting them is like diminishing returns.

Yota stuff does not sell well ( I was surprised by that comment)………. so it is generally avoided.

Even if the breaker was to actively purchase Patrol & ‘yota …….. he estimates the buy / availability ratio against LR (all models) to be about 1000:1. Apparently there are specialist breakers in the UK for this stuff……. but specialist and £££ go together.

If I want yota or Patrol axles, then he will get me some in ……….most will be ‘moon milers’ but anything decent will cost …………..double or triple that of LR……….. the bottom line was, ‘Why have Jap axles when the only spares you buy will have to be new and from a dealer’ ……………. . LR axles are plentiful and will be for a long time to come.

Late LR Chocolate axles……. will go for £150 - £250 dependant upon exact type & history…………… early cream cheese axles are cheaper.

The price of 200 & 300 defender engines is falling ……. TD5 is maintaining good prices………..late 4.6 V8’s are maintaining their price at about - £1200…… every one they get is often sold before they even have the car in.

Hmmmmm……….. interesting sideline conversation ……. To get the heads off a RR sport you have to lift the body …..not enough clearance at the rear of the engine……. Yes they are breaking a RR sport.

I suppose the summary is that yes, Jap axles are available, but if you want something half decent then it going to cost ………… but then that’s true of most things in ‘rip off’ Britain :D

Ian

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Page John/Bush65 as I'm sure he's fitted 80 series housings front and rear on his Rangie. Or just fit 80 series centre into the Rover housing + uprated axles and then you can fit Longfields, or truly bulletproof are Nissan Patrol diffs, about the same size as a D60, but the stub is a bit small on the CV, but just look at the thrashing the vehicles get on the OBC, and GQ and GU Patrols are the vehicles of choice there. Unfortunately the rear diff is centred.

A couple of blokes have fitted them to Rangies here. apparently the whole front axle + radius arms is almost a bolt in.

My rangie has landcruiser 105 series rear with ARB and 4.1: ring and pinion from a 79 series (stock 105 series is 4.3:1). Half shafts are stock. 105 series rear has larger dia axles than 80 series (and considerably larger than Salisbury coiler). 105 series has larger dia studs in the drive flange (80 series studs need to be upgraded to 105 series).

The front is a hybrid. landcruiser 60 series rear housing, with shortened tubes to take 105 series swivels and hubs. The diff is a nissan GQ high pinion 4.11:1 with ARB. The side gears have been swapped in the ARB to landcruiser 80 series rear side gears, to take stock 80/105 series half shafts.

The nissan front diff is a lot stronger than a landcruiser 80 or 105 series. The 80 and 105 series cv's are stronger than earlier landcruiser, rover and nissan cv's.

The earlier landcruiser and highlux cv's are about the same size in the bell/star as 110 county cv's but have larger dia stubshafts - rover spindles have to be bored out slightly to fit them. Nissan cv's are about the same, except for GU which has a larger bell, but still has same size stubshaft.

The 80 and 105 series cv's are approx 10mm larger at the bell than the others, and the stub shaft is larger again. While not as large as 101 cv's they can handle 38" tyres.

Electric selectable lockers were optional on toyotas, but they are not common here (I have never seen one). Limited slip diffs are more common, but they are need adjusting often.

Selectable lockers were optional on nissans. The nissan limited slip is nearly as good as a locker and doesn't give any trouble.

Some nissans have big rear diffs (260mm crown wheel) and large 37 spline axles. But you loose ground clearance with the big diff and don't need that much strength in a rover.

I know someone who competes with a lot of success in a rangie, which has nissan high pinion front diffs (233mm crown wheel) fitted front and rear. Although the high pinion diff is weaker when used in the rear, it is strong enough in the rangie with chevy V8. The high pinion gives an advantage with it's better tailshaft ground clearance and angle.

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why buy from a breakers? Ebay.... I get quoted up to £750 for an Isuzu engine from breakers with the usual "oh, rare engine, gonna cost ya" line, my arse, pick em up all day for peanuts, same goes for rot box jap 4x4's, if you want it and you look hard enough for it, you will be able to find it.

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Couple of points of clarity:

Nissan GQ, GR these are Patrols in the UK?

Toyota 80 100 Series are Landcruisers ie VX, Amazon?

Looking on Eblag, i should be able to pick up both for the price of an LR Axle upgrade....Whole truck that is!

How would i know what ratios they would be running in the Diffs?

Have found out that the Toyo 100" series are 4:11

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Couple of points of clarity:

Nissan GQ, GR these are Patrols in the UK?

Toyota 80 100 Series are Landcruisers ie VX, Amazon?

Looking on Eblag, i should be able to pick up both for the price of an LR Axle upgrade....Whole truck that is!

How would i know what ratios they would be running in the Diffs?

Have found out that the Toyo 100" series are 4:11

I dont know about the UK.

In Aus, GQ was the 1st coil sprung Nissan Patrol, this followed the MQ (leaf srung). The GU came after the GQ and has smoother lines where GQ is angular. The GU is still current, but has had minor cosmetic and other changes over the model years. We don't get the short wheelbase GU here in Aus.

BTW the GQ 5 speed gearbox is a great conversion for a rangie. Because of the size of the box, a 2" body lift is needed for clearance in the transmission tunnel.

Yes, Toyota 80 and 100 series are landcruiser wagons. I don't understand your reference to VX or Amazon!

In Aus the 100 series has independant front suspension. The 105 series has the solid axle front suspension with radius arms.

In Aus, all 80 series have 4.11:1 and all 100 series have 4.3:1 diff ratios.

Other landcruisers here are 40, 50, 60 and 70 series with leaf springs. The 79 series is current and has coils at the front.

New models are expected before too much longer to replace the 100 and 70 series. The 100 series replacement (120 series from memory) will probably be indepentant suspension front and rear. They will have a v8 diesel option.

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Couple of points of clarity:

Nissan GQ, GR these are Patrols in the UK?

Toyota 80 100 Series are Landcruisers ie VX, Amazon?

Looking on Eblag, i should be able to pick up both for the price of an LR Axle upgrade....Whole truck that is!

How would i know what ratios they would be running in the Diffs?

Have found out that the Toyo 100" series are 4:11

to clarify from a british perspective, you probably know of a gq patrol as a gr. they were introduced from 1992 i think and are notable not only as they are coilers, but also have flared arches. the most recent predecessor to that is easily distinguishable as it has square headlamps. these were built in spain (mostly i think, maybe also elsewhare) and came with 2.8 6cyl turbo diesels and i think a 3.0 petrol of some description. the predecessor to that had round headlamps and came with the sd33 3.3 n/a diesel engine and some petrols, dont know what. anyway, regarding the gq, they came with 4.2 diesel and petrol, td42 and tb 42 respectively, until i think around 1995 when a 2.8 diesel (from the previous spanish patrols) was used. the 4.2 diesel was sold in fewer numbers from this point i believe. the 2.8 also appeared inhe early gu (curvy from 1998 i think) patrols until that was replaced by the 3.0 in 2000ish. the older patrols are what you may hear referred to as mq's, apologies for the bad ordering of this.

regarding the toyotas, vx is probably what you know the 80 as and it gained the 'amazon' title i think in 1995 when it also had a dashboard revision for airbags i think, presumably among other upgrades. in 1998ish the 100 series was launched, also called the amazon. easy to notice as they're huge and...newer.

as mentioned, they have ifs, so you wont be pulling a front axle off one of those, unless you are going to be really clever. unfortunatley we never got the 105 here (solid axles front and rear) so you'll be hard pushed finding a pair of axles from one of those. I thought they ran the same axles as 80 series, but from reading bush's write up, it seems this is incorrect.

further confusion can be had from toyota imports, where you'll find the vx name referring to what was commonly sold as a 'landcruiser II' here, shorty with 2.4 td. i think they ran on coils all round. the prado 'i believe' is an extended verion of that, lwb, 5 doors. they're all 70 series based i think, although i couldn't tell you off hand which one.

60 (and 62) series, is the predecessor to the 80 series. leafs all round, massive rear overhang, 4.0 diesel (2h) and latterly turbo diesel (12-ht) in 62 series, around '88 and '89. 62's come with square headlamps, 60's with round. these look ace and tend to come with amazing 80's graphics down the side. because they look so cool here's a pic.

04-07-01l.jpg

some further images to help with toyota identification here

http://www.outbackimports.ca/landcruiser.php

i hope that helps a bit, hopefully someone can clarify a bit further and maybe correct some of that which is incorrect.

and a final thought, please don't go killing (diesel) gq's too unnecessarily for parts, they're kinda rare here. in saying that a few rotboxes have gone through ebay, they seem mostly to have been abused on farms.

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New models are expected before too much longer to replace the 100 and 70 series. The 100 series replacement (120 series from memory) will probably be indepentant suspension front and rear. They will have a v8 diesel option.

The 120 is the current model prado I am fairly sure

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:P

They'll be my axles at rakeway :D ... but I wish you wouldn't total up the figure like that, gives me palpatations.

Bathtub uses 101 axles to good effect, he runs standard shafts with ARB's, these are from GBR in the states, Bill at GBR gets ARB to make his 101 side gears and then builds them into 110 salisbury centres.

The Dana60 diff centres fit the salisbury axles as they are basically identicle. However it stops there no other D60 parts will fit a 101 front axle, D60 are all external UJ front axles. You would need to have new drive flanges and bore out the spindles to fit D60 1.5" 35 spline shafts in the rear axle. Not all D60 axles come with large shafts some have 1.31" shafts.

I went with 101 axles because of large CV's this was before Ashcrofts had released their CV's, I had also bought the 2 Zeus disc kits as well so there was no going back, I was initially going to go with GBR ARB's with the standard shafts but Bill at GBR was unsure when he'd receive the next batch of side gears.....so I got in touch with Rakeway initially to see if they could make the side gears and it went from there.:blink:

The shafts Rakeway are making for me are just the same size as standard but with D60 35 spline inners, the outer spline root diameter is the limiting factor, they will be better engineered, wasted etc.

The reason I went for the D60 ARB's was availability, almost any make of locker or diff can then be fitted and spares will never be a problem, I believe GBR now has the side gears in.

I think if Rakeway do a disc conversion at a lot less than the Zeus conversion the that would better.

If I started now with all that is available currently then I'd have to think long and hard before going down the 101 axle route. There are some good alternatives out there.

Andy

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM :D Portal Tec

But 101 axles 42s 380 HP & still no breakages :blink:

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Anyone know any good Jap4x4 breakers? Had a look online and in the Yella pages but hav'nt come up trumps yet??

One thing i have noticed, the cost for spares for Nissan and Toyo are pretty costly here in UK

well have to do what it says in your Signiture make the abense of the problem . There is always a way. Do that thing in the yellow pages where you phone a number and they phone evry scrap yard untill they find one. Think its called find a part

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Thos are great - there are several online ones. The good thing is every time someone phones you back you say "Well the last guy said it was £100 so if you can do it for £75 then I'll have it" and then the next guy phones and the price drops again 'cos they all want the business B)

Last thing I got through them I ended up halving the price and getting it delivered free too :D

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For unimog 404's

Plus a new stronger steering box, shortened props, sump demons on the 300tdi and a re-think on the suspension to deal with the extra torque twist.

Plus a million and one other litttle money saping tweaks :)

Couple of Q's

Stronger Steering Box? Whats the options

Options on the sump?

And Gearbox options avail?

Cheers

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