Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi all, It has always been a worry to me that the "Standard" Megasquirt Box for MS1 MS2 etc is anything bat waterproof, its not even spashproof !, added to that its extruded Ali and it also can suffer from condensation in a wet smelly drying out Land Rover. Having something more IP67, prob ABS not Ali and generally more spalsh / waterproof will I think be useful to many !! ? So, On my things to do list is to see if I can sort this via a nice , decent quality PCB enclosure IP67 or higher that will take a MS PCB neatly, maybe also with waterproof Serial (found one) port and D37 port (still looking ) that doesn't costs a fortune The PCB Board is I belive 6" x 4" Anyone point me to websites, suppliers, manufactuers etc etc as I am getting less than nowhere Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosecon Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I agree with you, but what about heat dissipation of the plastic box? The aly box is emitting some heat. The abs box I am afraid is going to keep all the heat inside. Have a look here :http://www.dem-uk.com/ looks promising since they make aly ip68. I am not sure for price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 If you find one, make it big enough for all the relays/boards etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttleyd Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Used these for some jobs at work, and are IP rated. http://www.hammondmfg.com/scpg.htm Thanks for the help with mega tune today Nige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I'd also point out the annoyance of the layout using two end-caps and two halves with the PCB sliding in. I quote like the sandwich design, it's got CNC goodness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Erm, google 'ip67 DB37' lead me here: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=ip67+db37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hi Nige, I looked & looked..... purchased a few different connectors but couldn't come up with a IP rated DB37 that would work with the existing board and not having it wired to an intermediate connector. So, I just went with the 'box' in a 'box' approach using the round mil-spec Amphenols. Not the cheapest but the DB connectors were never really intended for IP rated use.... I got all my bits from Digikey & Mouser Electronics..... have the part #'s if you want them for a similar build. Cheers, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Can't one just mount it on the roof well out of the way of any water? A dust/splash resistant casing (so IP55/56 or thereabouts) would be fine up there I would have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 May be it is time to ditch the DB37 connector? It's hard to wire up (get wires in the small holes)Much easier (I think there should at least be one unused pin) use some like the 36 way ecoseal at http://www.polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/ECU_Connectors.html It would be so much easier to connect as it's crimps (I know there has been a lot of discussion about crimps vs solder)Or another thought go for multiple smaller connectors so you could split the wiring up.E.g. Power and earths in one connect, Lamba in another (could do away with the connector that most offroad people put in the Lamda line anyway to make easy removal), Injectors, etc)I you go for including the relay board then you will need larger power connectors anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I used a gweiss box, the problem I found was getting one the right size, inevitable ends up bigger than needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 May be it is time to ditch the DB37 connector? I don't think that B&G, when they first designed the board really envisioned the ECU being taken for a swim in a 4x4..... Having spent quite allot of time working in food manufacturing & process plant, getting a truly sealed dis-connectable transition out a control box normally comes down to some form of heavy duty IP rated chassis connector be it round or rectangular. Personally I think the pre-assembled DB37 looms that you can buy are worth the money, crimped pins are fine if there assembled using a commercial strip & crimp machine (that has regular pull-off quality checks done on it). Use one as a basis for an IP rated enclosure with some form of chassis connector and you can't go too far wrong. Just my 2c (p) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Can't one just mount it on the roof well out of the way of any water? A dust/splash resistant casing (so IP55/56 or thereabouts) would be fine up there I would have thought. The roof isn't all that safe. A roll in a small puddle of water is all it takes to get it wet. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Everyone moans about the 37 pin connector - when your building the boards could you not just solder in a load of cable tails for connecting to more suitable sockets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Everyone moans about the 37 pin connector - when your building the boards could you not just solder in a load of cable tails for connecting to more suitable sockets? Yes.... but then how do you remove the board from the box without having to remove the IP rated chassis sockets from the enclosure. Just use the DB37 for what it really is.... a medium density multiway connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Without redesigning the PCB* you can't easily move away from the D37 connector - and they're actually very good for what they are. They are military spec, and for the size/price you won't find another connector that's rated for 5A per pin with that many contacts. Unless you're intending on submerging your ECU I can't see the point in making an IP69 case, it's a lot of effort, complexity and expense when it's surely more sensible to mount it somewhere out of harm's way. The ECU's Nige sells have conformal coating on the board so they're pretty resistant to moisture, and a finger full of vaseline in the D37 should ward off most attempts at water ingress. And the first person to say "but what if you're upside-down in a pond?" gets a slap, if that's the case you're not driving anywhere anytime soon anyway. Very few people drive through water deeper than the driver's nose regularly. IMHO the potential case design improvements are to make the thing simpler to assemble, robust to mount, and possibly with support or improved routing for the MAP sensor as it's always seemed a bit fragile. Going for a smaller overall size might also be nice. BOPLA/Alubos do some nice slim IP-rated cases that accept the MS PCB but it's a bit tight, my 1st MS was in one: That was a V2 board, I think a V3 might mount easier but I'm not sure. * And you can't do that without licensing from B&G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 How much does a board actually cost to build? I'd guess that the major expense of a megasquirt install is everything but the board. It would be easy to pay far more for the case than the board you are protecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy_andy Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 It would be easy to pay far more for the case than the board you are protecting. With todays SMD technology & 'pick and spit' assembly..... that's pritty much the 'case' anyway..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 And the first person to say "but what if you're upside-down in a pond?" gets a slap, if that's the case you're not driving anywhere anytime soon anyway. Very few people drive through water deeper than the driver's nose regularly. Ask yella90 on here. He did this quite easily at mow cop. The only water in miles ! And he flipped it into it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Ask yella90 on here. He did this quite easily at mow cop. The only water in miles ! And he flipped it into it... And being able to start the engine then would have helped him how? If you cut the power reasonably quickly the thing will survive anyway, especially with the PCB coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 once built could you set it in a jelly type mould, similar to that one the coil packs. I do totally understand if there is a probelm you'd have to build another. but is the likely hood of that happening? or would heat be a factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Nope, bad idea, Unless you have REALLY cooked it PCB and contents can be repaired, potting it means its junk plus ECU lets off some heat - may not take kindly to it and go pop just to show you But thanks for the thoughts, keep em coming Couple of idea are forming and working to the top Option 1 - Nice IP67 box just for ECU with nice mounting plates and silicone seals etc Option 2 - As above, bigger so it can contain relay Board too Option 3 - as above and EDIS as well Need to get some samples and then if suitable look at costings and machining to get right Hmmmmmm Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Potting is quite common, but does really knacker you for any mods. Also, the compound is not cheap if you need to cast a big enough brick of it to encapsulate an MS board. You'd have to protect the MAP sensor as it needs to breathe to the outside air. I get the feeling people are seeing a problem that's not there - how many people have actually drowned an ECU? For that matter, how many people, be they running V8's or TDi's, have ever even had water up past their nips in the cab? An issue with sealed enclosures, especially with electronics which get warm & then cool down, is that moisture can wick in through the tiniest gap & fill the "sealed" box up. With no airflow, it ends up worse than a case which is unsealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'd personally be interested in option 3, but option 1 may be more favoured because of more places to fit in more "standard " vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Potting is quite common, but does really knacker you for any mods. Also, the compound is not cheap if you need to cast a big enough brick of it to encapsulate an MS board. You'd have to protect the MAP sensor as it needs to breathe to the outside air.I get the feeling people are seeing a problem that's not there - how many people have actually drowned an ECU? For that matter, how many people, be they running V8's or TDi's, have ever even had water up past their nips in the cab? An issue with sealed enclosures, especially with electronics which get warm & then cool down, is that moisture can wick in through the tiniest gap & fill the "sealed" box up. With no airflow, it ends up worse than a case which is unsealed. Very true - but where is the fun in that? lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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