2.8 300 tdi

[Cam_43]

• hello all, thought i would ask your opinion on my latest plan. i want to keep using my 200 tdi 110 for holidays, overland comutting etc and i find its now becoming a bit of a chew to use due to comparing it to other vehicles i drive. its lacks power, its noisey and desperate on hills towing. i thought about changing to a Td5 but there's the issue which come along with it. like ECUs when aboard and problems with the heads. plus i want to keep the 110 ive had for 10 years and love to bits and modifed to my needs.

  so i thought about the 300 tdi but i feel the power gain wouldn't be that impressive,so i looked around and found M and D engineering 2.8 conversion. which develops 120BHP and 205lb torque @1600 RPM. with a stock head and turbo. if i went of a VVT Turbo the 250lb Torque @ 1400 RPM. but unsure how reliable VVT would be and long lasting?

  My thoughts on going this way in stead of the 2.8 international power stroke is that the toque is more manageable though a stock manel box. less messing around to fit. all the parts bolted to it are stock. un like the 2.8 which used a different cam belt,aut,water pump.etc. which makes parts harder to get hold of.

  so the question is has any one heard or drive a 2.8 300 tdi.? anyone heard of any bad press about this? can anyone see a problem in the future with this plan?

  thanks in advance

[RustyNissanPrairie]

why not fit a big intercooler and a VVT to the 200?

[TSD]

The Powerstroke 2.8 uses the same cambelt and waterpump as the 300tdi, the accessory drive belt is a stock part from your local BMW dealer.

Alternator is different, but made of common Bosch parts, and the vacuum pump is a typical alternator mounted part.

Lift pump can be a stock 300tdi part in a pinch, though the International part flows more.

M+D conversion seems to be simply using Powerstroke parts, so if you go the VVT route it would seem you just end up with a powerstroke without the improved cooling of the International version, and built from 50% used parts.

As for reliability, my Powerstroke has gone past 150k miles, the only significant failures have been one cracked cylinder head and a trail of busted R380s

[Cam_43]

TSD thanks for the in put. had not thought about it in that way

i was lead to beleve that the cam belt etc. was all diffent to stock parts. thanks for correcting that. the resonaling be hind me leaning to wards the reworked 300 was easy of repair and easy of fitting.

how dose it stand up against a td5>? or whats the torque band like?

thanks

ben

[TSD]

If you have the M&D kit engine, then fitting is no more difficult than a 300tdi. The Alternator sits out more, making the engine a bit wider, coolant and air intake pipes have to be cut n shut, otherwise it's just like a 300.

I drove in to my shed on Friday lunchtime with a 300tdi, and drove out on Sunday lunchtime with a TGV. I was working mostly alone, and I took my time.

(There's a short write up of the fitting here.)

I was instantly a fan there first time I drove it, and eight years and 150k later I still am. Apart from the slightly worse fuel economy than the 300tdi, and the cost of gearboxes, it's been a really good value conversion.

There are loads of cheaper engine swap possibilities, but most of them are pulled from scrappers, or at best recons. I put in a new factory engine with no 'mystery history', I know everything that's ever happened to it, and it still runs as sweetly and any 300tdi I've seen. I know I can jump in it, and drive it anywhere, without a second thought. I would very likely be on my third second-hand 300tdi by now.

I would say though, it doesn't drive like a TDI. It has a big torque peak, very low in the rev range. Fridgefreezer on this forum reckoned it drove more like a V8 than a TDI, no lazy pickup or turbo lag, but obviously the action is over sooner.

While it's fun, it's not as relaxing to drive round town or in traffic as a 200, 300 or a td5. That is probably a function of having a mechanically controlled VVT, the turbo changes are never going to be as optimal as an electronically controlled one could be.

You can see the torque curve in the M+D blurb. the HS2.5 they show as comparison is a standard 300tdi.

[Maverik]

I have a small roost of 200tdi's now and they do have there faults but I like them.

I have been using my 90 with disco 200 now to commute and I'm missing the perkness that you might get out of a td5, but rather than change engine I've had a very basic fiddle with the FIP and now presently going through a few hoops to refine the engine a bit to see if I can get a little more "performance" out of it.

The FIP fiddle was taking the diaphragm spacer out and giving it a tad more off turbo fuelling (amazing difference) and from last calculation after driving to Edinburgh and back I got 28mpg out of her...

Second on the list is to upgrade Intercooler to a Alisports standard fit upgrade unit (going in tonight) then I'll see what differences I see in her running ability.

Thirdly I've got a new (Alisports) radiator on order as she does run hot under heavy load and towing - so that should solve that issue.

I've got a 2nd set of injectors that I intend on getting overhauled and they'll go in.

I'm not looking for "performance" but I am looking to enhance the 200tdi to allow its full potential to be unlocked.

A VNT turbo will be the last improvement I make to it if I ever can afford that, as its not a cheap upgrade by any means...

[rusty_wingnut]

I had a 2.8 VNT on my 300, it was good and definitely picked up much better than the standard turbo. The conversion never caused my 300 any problems in 30k miles. I had a complete powerstroke engine at one point, but decided better of it after reading about the problems with gearboxes. In hindsight I wish I had just fitted the whole thing, with a good R380 and driven it with some degree of mechanical sympathy. The VNT gave such smooth pickup and felt like the engine had a wall of torque right through the rev band. If you can afford the full engine, go for it!

[cackshifter]

Ashcrofts are doing some strengthening mods to R380s now, bigger bearings, so maybe they'll take 2.8 torque.

[Aragorn]

Folk have been running tuned TD5's in front of R380's for a while, and they seem to take them just fine, so whats the issue with the 300tdi?

[discomikey]

is there anywhere where poeple are selling second hand or refurbished PS 2.8L engines? ive wanted one for years and just cant afford the £5000 crate price.

im currently doing a 5 speed conversion anyway so choice of box can be changed at will as nothing has been bought yet, now would be the time to do it if anything.

[TSD]

Folk have been running tuned TD5's in front of R380's for a while, and they seem to take them just fine, so whats the issue with the 300tdi?

Lots of torque at very low rpm, and doing with 25% less pistons. The instantaneous torque applied from each piston would be higher?

The quickfix cure would seem to be a heavier flywheel, or just drive with more sympathy

[Aragorn]

Yeh i guess, also the TD5 boxes are the upgraded L suffix ones whereas 300tdi boxes arent.

Be interesting to see if VNT equipped TD5's have issues?

[The Badger]

Weird thing is, I have not had any issue with my gearbox, I have the International 2.8, R38 Gearbox, LT250 (can't remember if I got the numbers right then on the transferbox).

What I find is that I tend to kill the clutch, after all it is the week link in the whole transmission. If I lock the central diff, and both axles then I can burn out the clutch easily, you have to be pretty carful.

However I did change the crown wheel and pinion gear rations to a 4.1 Ratio, this means it crawls nicely.

[FridgeFreezer]

If you're slipping the clutch then you're presumably not putting so much torque through the R380 - I believe TSD has gone from std to HD to VHD to F***HD on the clutch front, I forget exactly as the trail of destroyed drivetrain is plentiful! If you're burning clutches out then it's acting as a safety overload and probably saving the gearbox a bit of stress!

I doubt bigger bearings would save the R380 as it's the big lumps of torque that seems to kill them, as people have said they live behind TD5's and big V8's happily enough but big 4-pot diesels seem to give a hard time to LR gearboxes.

I have to say that spending a small pile of cash frigging about with a 20-year-old engine seems a bit daft when for only a bit more of a pile of cash you can have a brand-new complete engine in a crate, with everything new & designed for the job at hand.

[Cam_43]

thankyou All for the input and replys.

TSD reading your blog about your convertion, makes me want the Power stroke. i must admit i do worry about how many clutches and gearboxes i will get though. i would like to know if you think the Ashcroft L suffix R380 with the BIG bearing kit fitted would combat the problem of gearbox faulter? i would need to change the gearbox on my 110 anyway so i would have a built to spec.

Fridgefreezer

i see what your saying about starting a 20 year block etc. it was more about building an engine which we more of a all rounder which didnt kill gearboxes. i.e. the toque being lower with a stock turbo. etc. but i compelety get what your saying about the power stroke.new engine has got to be the way forward .

thanks

ben

[TSD]

My blog might read like a trail of destruction, but really no-ones interested in reading about all the 10s of 1000s of miles where nothing blew up

For most of the last 8 years the Ibex was my daily commuter hack, 90 miles/day of twisty country A road, mostly at unsociable hours where you can give it some beans.

I was (and am) also running 33" BFG MT, and an overdrive.

First gearbox was an early suffix box of unknown mileage - doesn't really count in my view, but still lasted 30k

Second box was Ashcrofts L - replaced due to noisy bearings after about 60k

Current box, another Ashcrofts L - now got 60k ish on it - no problems except having the worst gearshift of any R380 I've ever driven.

Plenty of Defenders have had new gearboxes fitted around 100k, so I've no particular complaints.

The original M&D supplied HD clutch blew apart, the 'extra specially expensive' M&D alternative has been fine, except it rattles the gearbox in neutral (stiffer drive springs).

I've been through 2 transfer boxes - 1 due to operator error, one failed bearings - and a lot of UJs (high-ish angles and a lot of fast road use).

MY driveshafts, flanges and CVs are all uprated.

It's a fair list, but then my 200tdi Defender had a new LT77, new LT230 and a Turner 200tdi before I bought it at 170k miles, so there isn't really *that* much difference.

The short answer is, if you modify your car away from standard, you have to expect reliability to be worse than standard - that's simply how it is. You can't put in a few million development miles to find out what will fail ahead of time, in the way the manufacturers can. If you're lucky, it won't be any worse, but you can't expect it.

If you add a load of torque, or a load of power, and then use it, stuff will wear out faster.

If you're worried about breaking stuff, stop driving like a medieval Danish king, it really is that simple

[RustyNissanPrairie]

What about fitting a dual mass flywheel from a TD5? they're designed to absorb some of the torque pulses and protect the gearboxes slightly