Bowie69 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Odd, very, no reason why it should have got worse I think? Perhaps had a bad burn, not that I have ever had one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I have come across this as has Jeff Waghorn (Bobtail84) A bad upload can result in a "Damaged" file, with errors, sometimes the firmweare can even be corrupted ....normally as Kevin has done here a reload of a known good file is a perm fix...sometimes relaod of the firmware might be required.... Its one of the reasons I prefer the Serial to Serial connection vs a USB convertor....ALWAYS have a known good map somewhere on you if you go tunning I made the mistake long time ago of uploading at "Some RPM" then braked the Lappy hit the floor, just as it was uploading MSQ to the ECU....and it misfired like a piggy all the way home as I didn't have a decent MSQ having just overwitten it 342 BHP turned into about 30 .... Best advice is Always have a back up in case you screw it ! Serial to serial is better IMHO Don't do at speed, tickover or stainionary better SCREW the leads in - not just "Pushed yep sorted " <cough> Have the MSQ on your Desktop / Laptop, NOT on a USB stick shoved in the lappy, its just another slow down of connections .... And ENJOY now - congrats Kevin, whats really good is both you and Bingy had "Problems" but, even with beginners knowledge BOTH of you have sorted what were odd and mysterious "Probs" - consider the "Fun" you could have had / have had / with a Lucas "Mystery problem" ! Congrats to you both !Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 One thing about screwing the serial connection up, they are only supposed to hold the cable in place, do NOT do them up any more than neccessary, as you will remove the little threaded bolt thingy from your laptop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Bad news I'm afraid, the problem is still there. After about 30 miles you can feel performance degrade and it starts to misfire again, getting worse and worse. Reload the tune and its back running well again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 er...I have no idea at all, I have just dusted off my thinking cap........ Hmmmmmmm...anyone ANY ideas ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 might be a dodgy sensor, when you reload does it reset all the sensors start readins if you get what I mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 just the afr was off and it smelt really rich which would explain the misfire. If it was a sensor would it just go bad and stay like that, but this actually gets worse as time goes by, as if its getting more and more corrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 You're not auto-tuning the whole time are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 No, I didn't have the laptop connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 What's the controller authority on the lambda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 step size = 1% authority = 15% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Authority doesn't need to be as high as 15%, make it 5%, too much authority could be choking your plugs, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Get engine warm and post up here a data log and the MSQ File that it was logged against I am still trying to work out how / what / why.....its serioulsy odd.....I cannot think what this could be ....hence why I would love to see a log and see if we can see whats happening .... Couple of things Buy and fit new plugs - NGK BP6RES - plougs can do odd things, richness and back fires can near kill them. When you say "It gets worse" ....is it PERFECTLY OK again if you stop, relaod original MSQ and drive back off ? and / or what if you switch off, wait 5 - 10 mins start up and drive off again without reloading the MSQ ? Thinking ............ Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 I will post a log when I next go out, although the voltage drops the same as my first post from what I saw. (I've got an issue to deal with first b4 i can post, will sms Nigel to explain) Spark plugs are new and gapped as per your recommendation. The map performance issue doesn't reset based on a rest, it's seems cumulative in terms of misfire as you go one regardless of stops and starts. It was awful as I stopped for fuel, filled up, and then reloaded the map. You felt the hiccup and then it noticeable ran better at idle and off it was back in hooligan mode. You remember when I used TS it went crazy first time out it went crazy, would this be connected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Tank vacuum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Tank vacuum. A possibility but never had that before and it wouldn't explain why the volts would drop. Also when I filled up with fuel the vacuum would have been released, no whoosh, and I wouldn't have only noticed the change in running once I loaded the tune at idle. Thanks again for all your input. Just to make sure, when I load mt, it's the first ms version in the list I choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I don't think the battery volts drop is a major concern - you're going from 14.1v to 13.4v measured at the ECU connector, which is coinciding (in your screen shot) with the injector duty cycle going up to ~80%, so at that point the ECU has 80% of the max injector current flowing through its ground connection, so the small resistance in the wiring/joints will cause a greater voltage drop (voltage drop being proportional to the current). 80% duty cycle is considered about the maximum you should ever run injectors. Fuel injectors are sized to be able to supply the engine at full power without being open for more than 80% of the time, so the fact that you're somehow hitting this limit during relatively normal driving suggests some fundamental issue as that would be absolutely hosing fuel into your engine. Normally the injectors would/should not hit 80% until the engine was on the redline / under heavy load. As an example, one of my old datalogs shows my duty cycle at 35% whilst cruising along at 2500rpm: What's needed is to approach this methodically. 1st step is to post a datalog or two, not just a screen shot. Preferably one when you have the problem, then one after the restart fixing it. In a non-methodical order off the top of my head: Are you using Nige's supplied firmware & settings? Have you changed any settings? Can you post up your settings file? Does stopping & restarting without touching any settings make a difference? Does popping the fuel cap off change anything? Does disabling the EGO correction (0% authority) change it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 I went out today greenlaning and logged most of the day. Here is what happened. I'm using Nigel's tune and have only modified the idle and the controller authority from 15% to 5%. Spent the first 6 hours running fine then I noticed a drop in power which came on gradually. I reloaded the tune with controller authority set 0 and although there was a slight improvement. Completely shut everything done and reloaded the tune and switched off completely and waited ten minutes. It then ran better but still underpowered slightly and degraded further as I drove home which was a fifty mile drive. Looking at the logs it looks ok until the problem really is noticeable and the volts, on the log, then starts jumping about. It's like a component starts to breakdown. Reloading the tune helps but doesnt cure it, it starts to degrade again. In answer to fridgefreezers questions, answers below' Are you using Nige's supplied firmware & settings? basically yes Have you changed any settings?yes, idle speed and the authority Can you post up your settings file? I'll try Does stopping & restarting without touching any settings make a difference?no Does popping the fuel cap off change anything?no I'll load up the logs shortly thanks in advance Does disabling the EGO correction (0% authority) change it?no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 the logs are too big to post 4mb, can I email them? where do I find the settings file? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingy Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Best advice is And ENJOY now - congrats Kevin, whats really good is both you and Bingy had "Problems" but, even with beginners knowledge BOTH of you have sorted what were odd and mysterious "Probs" - consider the "Fun" you could have had / have had / with a Lucas "Mystery problem" ! Congrats to you both ! Nige Somehow i have managed to overlook this thread. Thanks for the vote of confidence Nige Good luck in finding your problem Kevin Sadly far too technical for me - Maybe in 12-18 months time (The only settings i know are the settings tab in Megatune, top row second one in from left) HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I don't think it's anything to do with the battery voltage, but it's an unexplained symptom which might point you to the real issue. I don't see anywhere you've actually checked to see if the voltage really is dropping, or if the MS just thinks it is? I'd get a real meter on the battery (directly across the terminals) and drive around until the fault occurs. Then I'd repeat it measured at the MS plug, *and* grounded at the MS plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Kevin, send me a PM and I'll send you an email address to send the logs to, and I can then host them for you. Cheers, Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevindawes Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 Hi, back again. Was off-line due to a family issue but now that normality is returning keen to get the motor sorted, thanks again for all the help and advice. Ok where am I now, well, Nigel kindly sent me his spare ecu that I just connected up. Went out for a little drive and logged the results (attached)NIGEL ECU RUN 1.xls The only thing I'd had changed was the authority to 5% and the idle down to 1000 from 1400. It was only a shortish run but performance didn't feel like it was degrading, I'll need to run it for a few more hours to make sure though. The log is below, the gego looks a bit on/off - is that ok? I ran the analyser which changed a few figures which I saved but over wrote the idle rev range keeping them original. Again, is this ok - how you do it? I still need to set my base idle and double check my timing (never seem to have enough time) but it appears to be running ok this first time out. Fingers crossed. Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 The only thing I'd had changed was the authority to 5% and the idle down to 1000 from 1400. Which idle setting is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csimoes Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 i think he means the fast idle value for when it's cold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.