Bowie69 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Difficult to be absolutely sure, but comparing to these pics, it does indeed look like a standard block: http://www.roversd1.nl/sd1web/capacity3.html Actually, even more sure now, you have 14-bolt heads, the P76 was 10. Which is good news, as your manifold will fit If I remember correctly, EFI manifolds were often fitted with spacers in Oz to make them fit the P76 engine. I am beginning to think someone may have stuffed a P76 crank in the stock, with a combination of different pistons and rods to get the height right, a good cheap way to get a stroker I reckon It should really fly once it has a new cam and is running properly on MS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 Difficult to be absolutely sure, but comparing to these pics, it does indeed look like a standard block: http://www.roversd1.nl/sd1web/capacity3.html Actually, even more sure now, you have 14-bolt heads, the P76 was 10. Which is good news, as your manifold will fit If I remember correctly, EFI manifolds were often fitted with spacers in Oz to make them fit the P76 engine. I am beginning to think someone may have stuffed a P76 crank in the stock, with a combination of different pistons and rods to get the height right, a good cheap way to get a stroker I reckon It should really fly once it has a new cam and is running properly on MS Im not sure how it was done. When I bought it it wasnt going but was told it was a 4.5l motor, it looked pretty tidy but I found some pretty dodgy recent rust repairs so I wasnt too sure if anything about the motor was true either, well turns out it was so thats a plus. I have been trying to do a bit of research on it but there isnt much, seems in the UK there was a 4.2 stroker kit. Apparently the P76 crank wont drop in either, the journals are different dia and the flywheel bolt pattern is different, not to say a bit of machining cant get it in. There were a couple of references to people in OZ taking them out to 6l! Unfortunately it seems most of this sort of stuff was done in the 80s and the internet doesnt do the 80s well. Have one of the heads cleaned, valves ground and refitted and only miss-placed 2 collets, lucky I had some spare heads, the rockers are cleaning themselves in a rubbish bin along with the other head and rocker covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Maybe it's an Eales 4.5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Pretty sure the Eales was a shorter stroke motor, with 94mm bores, but could be wrong. HFH will be able to tell us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 The engine Code 25D is a 3.9 EFi auto RRC engine according to this http://www.v8register.net/FilesV8/V8%20engine%20number%20reference%20R7%2030.11.07.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 Heads cleaned and back on as well as the base of the inlet manifold. The plumbing on this has been changed a bit after the fitting came out of the casting.... A brass hose tail where the cold start sensor went and a hose tail where one of the temperature senders went, this got rid of the rusty steel fittings. Need to alter my fuel rail a bit as the inlet hits the rocker cover, clean up the rocker covers and sort out the fast idle valve on the plenum and it should be good to go... in theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 The engine Code 25D is a 3.9 EFi auto RRC engine according to this http://www.v8register.net/FilesV8/V8%20engine%20number%20reference%20R7%2030.11.07.pdf Its still under the 3.5L heading 25D00001 R.Rover efi auto 9.35:1cr 1986 onwards Would have to be a 35D or 36D to be a 3.9. Its interesting to see that the Japanese model has its own code, I would guess that most of the 3.9s in NZ are 30G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncmc Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Its still under the 3.5L heading 25D00001 R.Rover efi auto 9.35:1cr 1986 onwards Would have to be a 35D or 36D to be a 3.9. Its interesting to see that the Japanese model has its own code, I would guess that most of the 3.9s in NZ are 30G Hmm, didn't read all of it did I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 The fuel rail is fixed/modified. I ended up using the end out of a 4.6 fuel rail and a spare elbow, it seems that that the fuel rails are brazed or soldered together so I had to clean all that off. It also looks like the engine had some sort of Bosch adjustable regulator on it, I think Ill stick to the standard Lucas one that I got off the spare part engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2A109RAG Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I have nearly finished a MS build, I may have some spare parts if you get stuck Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I have nearly finished a MS build, I may have some spare parts if you get stuck Regards I will keep that in mind, thanks. I take it you have an MS1 EDIS set up? what part on NZ are you in? Im down in Chch. Got a bit more done today, tested the fuel rail and no leaks there which is good, it even clears the rocker cover now! Also got the idle valve mounted onto the throttle body, just need to do another trip to Pick a Part to get a connector for the TPS and then I can finish up the wiring and fingers crossed I might be able to have a go at starting it soon. Got to love British engineering though, the power steer pump looks like it should go on with the bottom bracket attached.... no the outlet pipe hits the alternator bracket so it cant be tilted up enough and then the pump itself hits the alternator bracket and then finaly you cant get the nut on the stud in the head with the pump in place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Another picture, makes it feel like I have got something done.... Top on, throttle linkage hooked up, rocker covers on, alternator and PS pump on, idle valve half connected... I got hold of a 4.6 throttle body that didnt have a stepper motor in it so I filled up the hole on the just in front of the throttle butterfly, made a plate with a hole in it that just fits over the aluminium tube on the idle valve which clamps an O-ring against the face, this holds the idle valve on along with the rubber band on the other end that bolts on over the TPS. I was a bit silly and cut off the Idle valve connector to use on the TPS, it fits the TPS but the spring clips are on the wrong side so it doesnt fit on the manifold... It got reconnected to the idle valve. So still need to get a TPS connector and some heater hoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Well some success at last.... It started and ran with full MS control. I cant remember how many times I took the throttle body/plenium off, for some reason the heater inlet/outlet pipes point straight at the back of the head, seems like a silly idea. That required pulling out the dash - heater box - heater core to bend the pipes so they point slightly toward the centre, this probably could have been done in place but there was a pretty big chance of breaking the solder joint on the header tank. This gave a much better angle for the heater hose and makes it easier to get a screwdriver on the hose clamps even with everything back in place. The next issues were of my own making; first there were suddenly a lot more sync losses, so many that there was no chance of running, the VR wire was re routed when I put it back together and ended up too close to the HT leads, that was an easy fix. Then the first go at cranking it, it fired and the oil pressure light came on, I hadnt bolted the distributor down and it came off the oil pump drive, easy to over look when its just in the way now as opposed to being a functional part of the engine. Finally I left a torch on the radiator and it fell down and spat the fan belt off. I only went through 1 battery to get it started, most of that was due to the sync looses. I cant remember where the map I started with came from but it will need a fair bit of tweaking, I had to double the required fuel (16 to 35) and take the crank pulse width up to just under 400 to get it to started. Once I got it running there were issues to get it to idle, now I did gloss over the pros and cons of the 4.6 topend but I didnt notice that it doesnt have an adjustable idle bypass like the 3.5 one, so basically all I could do was unblock the idle valve (which isnt set up yet), this and playing with the VE table I got a more stable idle than the 4CU ever had even though it is about 200rpm too low (at 550). It will go into drive and reverse without changing as well which is good but slightly odd, maybe its a combination of being a bit rich and the extra advance at idle (10-12 deg) over the old setup. I also didnt have the correct coolant/airtemp calibrations so I fixed that tonight, a bit of a pain as the MS droid doesnt have the facility to change it so I had to pull it out and plug it into the PC inside. (Bosch sensors instead of Rover or GM). Will be interesting to see how it starts tomorrow. Really need to finish off the decapitated distributor as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2A109RAG Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Yes, I wasn't feeling so adventurous, so I got the Kit out of the UK from Nige. It was a great feeling to gave it start and run...... I'm out in Rolleston enjoying a monster frost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yes, I wasn't feeling so adventurous, so I got the Kit out of the UK from Nige. It was a great feeling to gave it start and run...... I'm out in Rolleston enjoying a monster frost. I had a look at some of your pictures, yours looks pretty sorted. Mine wouldnt start yesterday in the frost, all of the cranking pulse and warm up enrichment were out of wack once the idle values had been set. For some reason I needed to scale my whole map up by about 1.7 and cranking pulse back to around 200% starts better than it used to already!! Need to fill it up and do some tuning now, will have a go with the narrow band but will probably end up getting a wide band sensor and controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh NZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 OT sorry! I'm out in Rolleston enjoying a monster frost. I'm in Riccarton! I'll have to keep an eye out for you on the road. I'm out that way looking at a skippy this weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Well the process of tuning begins. This is where I am at now, it does run ok, well at least as good as it used to but still much tuning required. The ignition map might be a bit aggressive given it is a long stroke 4.4l motor. Im not sure why the numbers are so high in the fuel table compared to others, I probably should check the fuel pressure to make sure the regulator is ok. One of the logs showed me hitting 90% duty cycle but that was putting the boot down in an already rich point at high revs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 OT sorry! I'm in Riccarton! I'll have to keep an eye out for you on the road. I'm out that way looking at a skippy this weekend! Ive got skippy body work on a cut down RR chassis with a 4.1 falcon engine in it sitting in the drive way.... long long long long term project that has had bits taken to get this one going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Hmm, after a bit of checking it seems I have two dead fuel regulators, both hold the rail at pressure without the engine running but bleed down straight away so Im guessing the pressure will drop when there is a big fuel demand. The one that I was using is so bad you can blow through it!! I think the rest of the system is ok, I removed the regulator and connected my compressor at 40 psi and turned off the valve on the air line, it was still showing 10 psi 45min later so I think the check valve in pump and the injectors are ok. Although Im tempted to use the external Volvo pump and filter that I had for the Landrover project. Is it hard to remove the in tank pump and set up a fuel pickup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I guess fuel pick up could just be a length of rubber hose attached to where the fuel pump went, and dangle it somewhere near the bottom of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Im not sure if there was some carp in the fuel rail or not that got into the regulator or if it was just from sitting around in the garage but blowing large amounts of air through the regulator got it working properly again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 And another dumb mistake, the instructions for fitting the valley gasket say to loosely bolt down the clamps and then fit the manifold.... you just have to remember to tighten them after the manifold is bolted down, at least thats an easy oil leak to fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Idle valve; the one I had originally intended to use is a Bosch 3 wire version and has the inlet and outlet at 90deg, MS can run these but they need a 50w 40ohm resistor to 'bounce' off. The problem I came across is that this resistor would cost more than the idle valve.... Anyway another trip to the wrecker and a bit of a poke around and I found a couple on BMWs (96 ish 4 and 6 cyl) that may be suitable, interestingly there are different sizes for the two wire versions (probably for the 3 wire as well), ie bigger hose connections and bigger vane in the valve. The bigger one was on the 6 cyl car, also the bigger one had a different connector, I think they are called mini timer or something but the big one had the locating lug offset while the small one had the standard plug. I went with the big one since the 4.6 plenum doesnt have the idle bypass on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 but they need a 50w 40ohm resistor I'd doubt that, off the top of my head they only draw maybe an amp or so, the driver transistor is only rated to 5A and 12v across 40 Ohms would limit current to about 0.3A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 I'd doubt that, off the top of my head they only draw maybe an amp or so, the driver transistor is only rated to 5A and 12v across 40 Ohms would limit current to about 0.3A. You may well be right, I hadnt done the maths on that and just went with what was specified in all of the documentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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