PeteMck Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Right, Sorry if this is seems like im flogging a dead horse but im stumped and have run out of ideas. As the title suggests i am not getting a spark. Engine is a 4.6 rover v8 I have spent the last 2 days searching and trying different things and now im stumped. I have tried running lives from battery straight to coils and straight to EDIS and earthing EDIS straight to battery to try and elimiate any problems with the m/s relay board. Ive disconected the ms ecu and most importantly ive switched the VR sensor wires around more times than i care to mention. From my reasearch it seems that as long as the Edis has +ive, earth and a vr signal it will work. The wires coming back from the coils to the Edis module are getting power from presumably the coils no voltage at plug end when attacehed to Edis but power when attached to coils. (presume this is right). So im left thinking, 2 dodgy coil packs, dodgy vr sensor, (Brand new fuel parts one), dodgy edis or dodgy spark plugs and leads. :S Any suggestions would be welcome! Finally rpm occasional registed (135rpm) for couple of seconds in tuner studion occasionally so think this is just interference. Oh and my battery is knackered so having to do all this while jumping the car, so dont no if thats the cause but seems unlikely else you'd never be able to jump the car. Thanks for any help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Which MS ECU and system are you running / wiring diagram ? Firmware and software and MSQ from ??Will help many here help you inc moi Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Firmware version is MS1 / extra rev 029v. As for wiring diagrams etc was bought from you oct 2012. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 You are right, EDIS with power, and power to the coil packs, correctly configured triggerwheel and VR sensor and some leads and it WILL spark. Can you check the resistance of the VR sensor? I expect Nige can tell you what one of his off the shelf is..... Triple check wiring, power goes to the middle pin of the coil packs, and are EARTHED by the EDIS to spark. EDIS8 and EDIS 4 plug are back to front, so be careful how you wired that up.... Especially the note on this diagram 'looking INTO the wiring harness' and the position of the clip. Failing that I would try and get a spare EDIS and swap that in, but it is RARE that they fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 will check it for the millionth time...you never know. :S that looks like what i have tho. ideally need it running by the end of the week so might order another sensor and edis just so i can rule them out. always stick the edis back on fleabay at a later date. :S Unless anyone can think up anything else. :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 ... most importantly ive switched the VR sensor wires around more times than i care to mention. I did this once when installing my Megajolt and in the process I buggered-up the tabs which hold the wires in place, inside the female connector. When the connector was pushed onto the sensor, one wire never connected. My solution was to cut off the connectors and solder two new ones on, Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 As per Bowie's diagram, if it has 12v and ground and the VR sensor the right way round you should get sparks or at least see a reasonable/sensible RPM in megatune on cranking (if the ECU is connected). If you don't get RPM in megatune then there's no point chasing any further than the EDIS or VR, the EDIS sends the RPM pulses to the ECU so if you're not getting any it's either a dead/faulty/mis-wired EDIS or dead/faulty/mis-wired/etc. VR sensor. Is your trigger wheel steel, the VR sensor within ~3mm of it (closer is better, but within 1-3mm should work)? Quite rare for an EDIS unit to go down but they can be damaged by mis-wiring, very unlikely/unlucky to get two bad coil packs at the same time. If you're jumping it it could be quite low voltage, if your battery is flat and everything is wired back to that then it will be dragging everything down with it. MS and EDIS will run down to 9v or less, but there could be quite a drop through jump leads if it's trying to hold up a flat battery and cranking V8. You're probably best off leaving it to charge for a while than keep trying with it below par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 And lastly.... you don't say what car it is in, and in case it is a show/sports car and you made a trigger wheel out of stainless, it WON'T work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 2012 eh ?? If you would like another edis module PM me your add and ill post you one...just return it ! I'm guessing you have a wiring fault....check earth's. ..mat cts to ecu then ecu to battery and then battery to chassis Check blue yellow wire pin 6 is to edis and ecu and relay Check white is switched live Does the fuel pump prime when you switch on ? Take a picture of the mega tune gauges when it's ignition on...post up Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Oh ...and get a decent charged battery I had big probs with mine when 1st start up saw battery flat and tried jumping !!!...charged and brooooom ! And no I don't know why. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 ok. well trigger wheel is def steel, Car is a 90, i havnt been swaping the wires at either end (using the choc block method). Ill do a screen grab later and post it up. Yes the fuel pump does prime. Ordered another EDIS of ebay (can always sell if turns out not to be that) but thats for the offer Ill try another battery. The one thats in the car literally will not hold charge at all so maybe its that thats screwing the whole thing up! Will double check all my wires again and try and get another battery from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 And if no joy then ring and we cab chat through wires / connectors see if I can spot something ! But try the above 1st....i am on hols but will try and find time to talk and help over phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 You might also want to set a location in your profile, so if somebody already running MegaSquirt is just around the corner they might offer hands on help / borrowing spare parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The battery is on it's way on mine and if your winching and the voltage gets down to 9v the engine will cut out. I don't know if that's the limit of the EDIS or megasquirt but if you know the battery is duff I would change it to rule it out, your going to need one anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Right, new battery in. Getting 12 volts to coils, and edis when ign on. when Cranking edis gets around 11V and coils about 10.5 ( so above 9V). vr sensor gives an eratic reading up to around 0.5V when cranking with the multimeter leads attached to both wires. Resistance of the VR sensor when disconnected is 379. Does this sound about right? Still no spark so hoping it indicates a problem with something..... Thanks for all your help so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 It's tricky to measure the output of the VR sensor with a multimeter as it's more like a microphone than anything, measuring on AC may show a more reliable signal but at cranking RPM it'll be millivolts (and at high RPM it can be hundreds of volts!) As I said, ignore sparks for now, do you get a sensible RPM reading when cranking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 No is the short answer to that. Right, pic 1 is what tuner studion shows when ignition on. Pic 2 is what it shows in the first couple of seconds cranking with no VR sensor attached. Pic 3 is what happens after a few seconds of cranking and the screen stays like this, again no VR sensor. Pic 4 - first couple of seconds cranking vr sensor attached Pic 5 - after a few seconds of cranking screen stays like this, again sensor attached Pic 6 - screen always like this from start of cranking with VR sensor wires round the other way. Any suggestions........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 nOT CRANKING FAST ENOUGH imho THATS 100 rpm ....TO SLOW TO KICK IN .... Argh, CAPS lock fairy strikes again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 so the engine isnt cranking fast enough to start the edis? cause for this? battery to small? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 so the initial rpm reading is that just interferance and thats why it disappears or does the pully create a small charge which it picks up but which is then filtered out as noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Do you have a datalog of cranking, where we can see the graph of the RPM over time? Even jut a screenshot would be helpful. Cheapest thing to try is a different VR sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 ok so this is with battery and disco jumping for extra oomph and the thing is turning over pretty quick. VR sesor round other way no rpm signal at all. still no spark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 ok well dont no if this will help but here is screen shot of cranking without disco. Here is data log from trigger logger if that helps anyone. How do i generate the rpm / time graph? Thanks for all the help so far! greatly appreciated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Trigger logger is for when you're NOT using EDIS, I'm not sure that one shows us anything. The fact you get some RPM with th VR sensor round one way suggests something's trying to work. RPM would be on whatever a normal log looks like in TunerStudio. In MLVV it looks a bit like this (I'm a luddite, haven't used the new software): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Fuel Pump is a priming and you have VR signal ^^^ so what he says .... Check the MSQ is in there, open up the VE Tables and spark table 1 and post up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MSQs can corrupt sometimes Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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