Cynic-al Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 When you say it goes pump > pressure regulator > fuel rail is that an aftermarket one as I thought the standard one was after the fuel rail on the return line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Not being funny (as have had this before) it is an EFI pump ??? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 ok, it goes pipe out of tank --> in line filter --> external pump (only has power and earth terminals) --> pressure regulator --> fuel rail dont think plugs are wet, took one out to check i still had a spark and it seems that i do. when the plugs out at least. lol. erm...that doesn't sound right ! On Rover V8s the PRV is built into the Rail and the rear, and the fuel return comes off that. Some pick will help Are you not using a RR in tank pump ?. Some pumps are suck and some push, some require a head of fuel to work, if you mix then up wrong they don't work... May not be the pump / Plumbing / prv but it just doesn't sound quite right to me at the moment ?? PICS ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 ok. knew i should have stuck with the 300tdi. lol. The fuel pump is an aftermarket injection pump. i was advised it was better to get a pump that had a high pressure output than the required 36-37psi and stick it through a regulator then onto rail. Can easily bypass the regulator if not needed not using rr pump as using completely different tank. will see if i can get the pics off my phone fridge - no the timing hasnt been done properly yet. Can only dream of the day that is done. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Fuel rail.pdf In this here you can see the 2 x pipes into the fuel rail, 1 is fuel in and one is return with the PRV which controls the pressures. Easiest Pump is a Range Rover classic one, cheap too, and fits in tank. You are saying your running a HP pump and through a filter first ? rare most filters are Low Pressure ... I am not saying your wrong / just I am not convinced yet your fuelling conections are right !!Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Right tried turning it over again. This time as its turning over it coughs and the rpm drops as though something has forced it to slow down if that makes sense, then it picks back up and does it again. Does that a few time then just carries on turning over normally. Obvs dont wanna turn it over to much incase i screw the starter. lol. my p38 was doing that when i had ht leads 1 and 4 reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Fuel rail.pdf In this here you can see the 2 x pipes into the fuel rail, 1 is fuel in and one is return with the PRV which controls the pressures. Easiest Pump is a Range Rover classic one, cheap too, and fits in tank. You are saying your running a HP pump and through a filter first ? rare most filters are Low Pressure ... I am not saying your wrong / just I am not convinced yet your fuelling conections are right !! Nige ok, well ill try removing the regulator and see what happens. filter is a high flow filter and yer it goes through that first. The pump does throw a lot of fuel out when priming (might have accidently left the earth on the pump and the pipe off) and the guage on the first regulator says its at about 2.5bar if that makes any difference. ill try it without the regulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 my p38 was doing that when i had ht leads 1 and 4 reversed. ok well im pretty sure all the leads are going to the right plugs but doesnt hurt to double check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Not entirely sure whats what in that photo, is the pressure regulator the round thing bottom left that looks a bit like a filter king type regulator? If so what are the other two at the top. One looks like a filter? I have this type of pump which runs fine but it has to be near the tank and have a pre filter before and a filter after; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APS-Universal-External-In-Line-Fuel-Injection-Pump-Bosch-0580464070-Replacement-/400524708163?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d41220943 I guess if the pressure is still good under cranking and you have it piped to the right side of the fuel rail then what you have is fine. I assume you have the top on now You won't regret dumping the TDi, well... until you have to go to the petrol station... again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 yer thats a similar pump to the one ive got on mine. right cylinder is filter, then its pump to the left of it and then yer the bottom left is regulator. pressure increases under cranking and then drops back down according to the gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The pump I have has to be within something like 0.5m of the tank and the filter before the pump is a coarse prefilter with a normal fuel filter after, might be worth checking incase yours is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Although I'm not convinced the problem is a lack of fuel/pressure (plumbing oddities aside), I do worry that it's not common to have an external high-pressure pump that is happy drawing fuel up, especially mounted high in the engine bay. If you're not 100% certain it's designed to do that, double-check with the supplier because if it's a regular EFI pump it WILL burn out. I don't know if the plumbing is wrong or just lost in description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Fridge is right, most HP pumps need to be lower than the fuel supply (and close to it) or they are in tank pumps. Normally they are "pusher" pumps in that they pump fuel forward, rather than a "puller" pump that sucks it forward. You might need a LP facet type job supplying the efi pump. But if your pump says it should work there, forget everything I just said! But then you might have one that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Damn phone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 well its 5 mins work to move it so going to stick it just after tank to be safe. will leave the regulator out and try adjusting the spark as per fridges suggestion and see what happens. will double check leads as well. Probs be bk in 30mins with more issues but you never no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Triple check that you've got your HT leads in the right order too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Ok. So this morning ive moved the pump, just have the pressure regulator on the rail and tried the suggestion with the spark table (which actually made things worse). at the moment it sounds like theres some vauge form of something happening, change the fixed value to 0 or 6, turns over and thats it. From the amount of turning over i would have though the spark plugs would have got wet so took a couple out to check and they seem pretty to very dry. lol. There is fuel getting to the rail and making it out the fuel return. going to seem if i can get hold of a rr pump to eliminate that side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 is there an easy way to see if the injectors are actually delivering fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Also, dont no if this helps but both wires to to the injectors say 12V when the ignition is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Im at a loss with your problem, but maybe one of your questions i can help with. When the injectors are working you can normally physically feel them 'tapping' if you hold a small screwdriver or something to them. Though i guess you will need a mate or someone to feel for that while your turning the motor over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 is there an easy way to see if the injectors are actually delivering fuel? You can set "fire priming pulse" to prove they work without having to crank, when you turn the ignition on the pump will run & the injectors should fire once. You could pull an injector out, aim it at the cat* and see what happens. * = Or wife, children, etc., basically away from anything valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Handy info that Fridge. Oh and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMck Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 hmm might have to do that. at the moment when you start it, it catches a couple of times then nothing. Pump i got has a maximum flow rate of 280 litres per hour, 180 litres per hour at 3 Bar apparently. Is that going to be putting enough fuel through? It about 40cm max from the tank and around 1/2 way up the side of the tank in terms of height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 What map have you started with? Is it one of nige's? The one I got off him was pretty rich so if it's turning over and not firing you should be able to smell the fuel? How old is the fuel? Also did the engine run fine before you stripped it down for megasquirt? To test the injectors I stuck them on the end of a hose pipe and applied and removed 12v (assuming they are the non resistor pack injectors) to see if they opened and closed and how they sprayed roughly then squirted wd40 through after but I wouldn't class it as the correct way to do it Does the map gauge on the laptop flicker up and down as you crank it or stay at 100? There are a few places to set how much fuel goes in, there is the table of map against rpm and a fixed value, what are they set at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.