Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Won't be on/off road tested for aaaaaaages but I thought I better make a discussion thread because I think they're quite a rare item?! And 5 hours later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 You need to change your sig mate, to "4 wheelin' blingin' machine" Looks a nice job, well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It look fabulous. Though I am ignorant to its use. Could someone educate me as to the advantages of it compared to simply locking the centre diff ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Have you hi-temp lacquered it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Oh dear, gears and whirry bits, 'tis the work of the devil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thanks Bowie *sigh* yeah it does absorb all my time and money this vehicle, but tbh the finished result is always worthwhile Looooooooooong job this big axle/transmission rebuild, mainly haven't got the spends for it, that's why it's taking months. Hey ho Anderzander, the difference with an ATB is not it's action when locked, but unlocked. An open diff is, well, open - and we all know that's no good. However, locked diffs are not diffs at all and they can introduce undesirable handling characteristics The best land rover for performance driving would have ATBs thoroughout, they work in the reverse of a normal diff and as wheelspin occurs they mechanically send the torque the other way. Excellent for driving on ice, snow, gravel etc, where locking the diff to reduce wheelspin would also mar handling. I am fitting Ashlockers front and rear as I need am air locking diff for extreme off road but ideally would like ATB all round, for the automatic action, the diff sorts out the drive as required instead of the all of a locked diff or the nothing of an open diff For me, it was a case of fit this whilst I can as I would regret not doing so in future, it is also a much stronger and longer lasting unit than OEM For me now diff lock will be a last resort as opposed to an immediate action as soon as we hit anything not tarmac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 And yes all the casings were lacquered before assembly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So it operates as an ATB during "unlocked" operation, but still allows you to lock it fully in the normal way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Jealous now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yes, it is an ATB which is fabulous for all conditions and better for many conditions when you would have otherwise wanted to lock the diff, but still retains the locking function for when you know you're going to be spinning wheels. To summarise the point of this, think of locking the diff NOT as a way of improving traction but actually something which disables the differential action, differential action which is a complicated system designed to allow power to all wheels at all times whilst allowing for differential rotation of wheels and/or Propshafts, thus maintaining good drive characteristics. Some people don't see the point when you can "just lock the diff anyway" but in a lot of cases (for example driving country lanes in deep snow) locking the diff is actually a detrimental step, decreasing good handling characteristics in order to maximise available traction. With an ATB fitted, you can keep the diff unlocked and it automatically sends torque to the axle that has more traction. The downside of a Torsen type diff like this is it requires an amount of torque at each output, ie if you have a wheel in the air situation it will not be able to bias the torque. Add a dab of brakes however and it will send power the other way and you drive out. As you may imagine, these diffs work phenomenally well with traction control systems fitted. For my purpose, it simply means I can now drive around at pace on low traction surfaces with one less diff locked, that means more traction for me as I'm not forcing wheel slip during cornering. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Jealous now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Although could you use a similar vcu borg warner transfer box from P38a ? they're not that rare, unless of course you want a working one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 a P38 one isn't much use as the transfer box hangs the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 No but the BW out of a classic for instance Yes they work and many prefer them But the lt230 is more versatile, much stronger and with an ATB fitted better performing. Plus, can you lock BW? The quick fix for a comp safari guy is a viscous unit, the proper fix is an ATB in an lt230 Just lucky Ashcroft made this unit at sensible price, quaife version is around £1200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 BW is auto-locking. To answer Retro, I believe there is no locking available to the ATB, it is fully automatic, makes the lever redundant in a good way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Viscous is auto locking as such but only through the viscous action. Ashcroft unit is lockable, it is externally identical to factory unit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 The BW does not lock. It is always an ATB. There needs to be differential speed to transfer the torque. This unit is stronger than stock, is an ATB with the diff "open" and can be fully locked as per stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 But the lt230 is more versatile, much stronger and with an ATB fitted better performing. it'll still leak though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 it'll still leak though Better had not do! Bishbashboshed plenty of sealant on this one to try and prevent it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thanks Noisy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thanks Noisy! Pleasure, now you iz learned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I iz ! I understood the benefits of open diffs - and some of the disadvantages of locked diffs, but I'd assumed they were of little consequence across the centre diff and only of noticeable affect across the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yeah you could prove to be right. I am in a situation where I am not in any huge rush or budget to finish the build so I am looking to future proof things The stock diff is an open diff and all open diffs are no good period. It has a locking function however so that is good. That said, whilst open it apparently has fairly serious weakness issues that may or may not rear their heads in the long term, I don't know. As such, fitting an ATB suits my current position, will be better in all ways that stock, and is still fully lockable. To me, this makes it a win win and something that I would have been foolish not to fit considering the vehicle is currently open endedly "in for rebuild" until all transmission weaknesses have been removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 The more I think about atb diffs the more I like the idea. Though I've just today put a self locking diff in the back - so will see how I get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Not wishing to sound like one is blowing ones own trumpet for choosing to fit this diff, but yes ATB units really are very good. I think perhaps KAM do an ATB with locking function for the axle diff That would be very swish! When you say self locking, do you mean a Detroit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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