ThreePointFive Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I guess that now my build is almost entirely on the MS I should really start getting the info I need. So I've roughly routed the injector wiring, I'm now looking at the coils. On the 4.0 they're nicely situated at the rear with a plug socket ready to go. I've trawled other threads but all seem to be using the coils supplied with the MS, with 3 holes each side for the wires to neatly connect up, as per Steve's thread here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=87607# But I don't have anything like this, so how can I connect up my coils? (ignore the connection in the foreground, it's just to hold the wire in place while I routed them) Do I need to cut each of the wires and solder in the MS or is there a way to configure the correct type of plug to work instead? Starting to feel like this is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I do have answers for these , but orf to a wedding so will replay laters Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnie_r Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I've recently done this one a 4.6 GEMS, I just used the plug on the loom, using an MS2. All is working fine, if you have the GEMS ECU connectors still attached the pin outs for the ignition coils can be found here http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/44978-lucas-gems-engine-management-ecu-pinout.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangie46 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 On my 4.0 I ditched the landrover items and got a pair of ford coil packs and plug leads from Nige, sorry I can't be any more help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 I was hoping you wouldn't say that, my build is quite similar to yours - same engine type from the same donor vehicles so I've been reading with interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 I've stripped the plug from the original loom (someone will now tell me it's worth many thousands on ebay no doubt) and it's difficult to tell which wire relates to which coil because they run unsighted beneath the lot of them. However, there are five of them so I'm hopeful I can just match them up after a bit of poking around and then connect as if I'd done it the 'normal' way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Take a look at the GEMS P38 RAVE: http://rave.stringsandints.com/RR%20%2702%20-%20RR%20P38%20-%20Defender.rar It has the description and pinout together with a connector view. IIRC driving these should be no different than EDIS coil packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Thanks Elbekko, I'm downloading it now but I went out and drew this up before I saw your post: So I'm unsure how that will translate to the 1-2-3 1-2-3 wiring of the ford packs, hopefully Rave will tell me something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Bored at work so having a look myself. This is what RAVE says: And this is from the Megamanual: And this image: That should be enough info I think? EDIT: And continuing from that (still bored): EDIS pin 8 -> GEMS pin 1 EDIS pin 9 -> GEMS pin 4 EDIS pin 11 -> GEMS pin 2 EDIS pin 12 -> GEMS pin 3 Edited September 8, 2014 by elbekko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Elbekko, Huge, huge thanks for that, you've gone way beyond the call there! I think I've got my head around it so tomorrow I'll be getting this part sorted. I couldn't do this without the help of the members of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 No problem, it may be of future interest to me anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 I've wired in the plug as indicated by the diagrams it all makes sense, though I won't know for sure if I had the correct colour to colour interpretations until I start it up. Going to the EDIS side and trying to make a start on that end, I'm looking at this: The wires I want to use are wrapped in this tape with what looks to be a bare large diameter cable looped inside it (silver object protruding from tape). Is this something I should leave alone or am I free to take it apart? I am concerned it's something intentional that I am about to cut up and destroy, so confirmation would be welcomed. It just looks a bit deliberate - if not odd - to me. Additionally an earth wire with ring connector was cable tied to the harness, not sure what purpose this has as it's not going to feed into the EDIS with that connection... is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Normally the vr sensor connections are shielded with what is basically tin foil wrapped with insulation tape. I usually remove this when extending the loom out from the edis plug with nice shielded cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm trying to wire the 37 pin PCB plug but having major issues. Having just turned it around to do the earths, half the wires I had done snapped off. I just don't seem to be able to get a clean, strong joint. Adding more solder to get a proper join just means the heatshrink doesn't fit, or worse still, the solder joins separate pins. Also having tried to get the joins properly seated I overheated a pin and it's moved in the plastic to almost the other side of the plug... Clearly I'm doing it wrong - I realise the fault is me and not the plug. Is there any advice on how to actually solder something so small and fiddly? I'm not throwing in the towel but I need to know what I can do to make this work, clearly I'm the only one having this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 What soldering Iron and solder are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 I have a 40w iron with flux cored solder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I tend to tin the pin a little bit, then strip and tin the wire. Then you just heat the pin a little and push the wire into place. Slide some heatshrink over the joint and Bob is your mothers brother. Keeping your tip clean helps (as applies to so many things in life ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I do the quagmire method too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangie46 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Same as above tin the wires first I also had a flux pen that I went over the Pins on 37pin plug first then just hold the wire on the pin and apply heat from solder gun gives a nice strong joint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 the quagmire method Giggidy giggidy gooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Thanks for the advice all, I did try tinning the pins and wires, but I clearly didn't get it right - probably not enough solder. I thenadded solder over the join while heating the two to compensate but I think this made the joints too large. That said, the thickness of the wire vs the pins is quite big anyway, it's going to be fiddly no matter what I do. I'll have to try again with the other plug, as I think this one is now ruined thanks to the overheated pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHO4 MUD Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 if your using lead free solder it can be a pain. if you can find some one with old solder with lead in it, it will work alot better. I would defiantly use Fluxite solderning paste on lead free stuff it makes a world of difference. Its a green tin with a goblin on it..... its also quite exspencive at £10 for a small tin but will last you forever. hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You shouldn't need paste or extra flux or "proper" lead solder to get a good joint, I think there's some more basic problem either with the iron, possibly tarnished copper wire if it's old, or just technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHO4 MUD Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 from the pics on the first page it looks like more heat would be good, and defently if you are putting solder on top of solder. soldering sould be a quick operation that you do once and dont go over gain. if it looks ugly its probable not a great joint, a good joint sould look clean and shiny. lead solder is better as it help everything flow together. Why it dificult to get because of RoHS compliancy, they are trying to remove lead from products so its better for the enviroment and lead doesnt end up in land fill etc etc. Saying that it looks like you can get 60/40 tin/lead in maplins at the moment wich would be good. If you hadn't done tones of soldering you wouldnt known, but i have. From my exsperiance the flux ive sujected is good and well worth it if it wasent i wouldnt have suggested it on here. anyway its just a suggestion take it or leave it.I'll say no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 After a few months of dealing with other things I'm coming back to this (the 90 goes back on the road this year, one way or another). I'm just finishing the loom but on the instruction CD from Nige it talks about the Lambda 4-wire setup and to refer to the Lambda wiring page for more info but there is no further mention of it besides the exhaust fitting page and the wiring contents. I was given 2 CDs (one got an update) but in the middle of a house move it's possible I'm using the older one and this is missing the info. Can anyone help with a diagram or notes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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