Disco or Land Cruiser

[Boydie]

One further note, The roadhouse at Birdsville have a recovery truck for vehicles that breakdown crossing the Simpson, they charge $400.00 per hour to recover a vehicle given that its a minimum 8 hour drive from Birdsville to Poeppel Corner where we came across the French Couple that would be say 16 hours @ $400.00 = $6,400.00, quite enough to ruin any holiday

[Shackleton]

You know what Iain, much as I love my pair of LR's I'd probably not be surprised if someone could quantify Toyota production being better than Land Rover.

LR had the monopoly in Australia until the mid 70's. Then two things happened - Australia and Japan did a deal on large coal exports which had conditions of large imports of Japanese motor vehicles, aaaaaand Leyland sucked up LR (which were being shipped to Aus as kits and built locally) Needless to say the quality declined. That info comes from Wikipedia, so take it or leave it, but it's undeniably interesting.

The CEO of Jameson whiskey once told me the story of the grip Scotch had on the American market in the 20th century. When prohibition was lifted in the States the Irish and Scottish whiskey manufacturers scrambled to get themselves back into the mainstream market. Scotch being twice distilled to Irish whiskey's thrice, was ready to export sooner and so caught the market. There can be less than obvious reasons for how a market behaves.

I'd love to know the ratio of LR to Toyota in Africa. Being that it's much closer to England.

Anyway who currently produces the most reliable engines, Ford or Toyota?

[garrycol]

Hangover, you may well be right but my friends petrol engine series 80 is badged with a compliance plate as being made in 2001,

Hangover is correct - I noted your mistake but wasn't going to mention it. If the 80 series has a 2001 compliance plate then the vehicle sat in the Toyota holding yard for a few years before being sold or more likely is a grey import and brought into Aust as a used vehicle and when certified had the compliance plate fitted then.

Certainly by 2001 it was the 100 series that was being sold as the 80 series went out of production many years before.

[Rangy35]

Rangy, agreed, I cannot stress too much the need for preparation and maintenance when driving out into the bush, whenever I travel into the bush and camp near a service station with a hoist I always arrange to have a "spanner check" carried out on the underside. I'm reminded of a observation made by Len Beadell who, in the late 60's came across a Mack truck pulled over on the side of the track with a blown diff, the guy had been there three weeks and had arranged for the parts to be delivered from Adelaide, 2 months later Len passed the same guy who was still there and was still very nonchalant about the delivery of his parts !!!!!

On our recent trip over the Simpson Desert we stopped for a "Britz" Land Cruiser driven by a French couple who had a flat tyre, the spare had next to no tread and he had driven with less than 10psi in his tyres (split rim, no bead lockers) resulting in the inner-tube valve being torn out of the rim, all we could do was help him fit the spare as he had no spare tube in his spares kit (supplied by Britz) and use our satellite phone to advise the plod at Birdsville of his situation and expected ETA. Two years ago on the track from Cordillo Downs to Innamincka we came across a drilling crew in a Santos ute parked up on the track who also had a flat, no repair kit and no air pump, incredible !!

You need to maintain your vehicle and be prepared and carry spares for every eventuality. Incidentally, noting the amount of Toyota's you came across how many Land Rovers did you see ? I'd guess zilch.

I few Land Rovers but not broken down.

[Rangy35]

You know what Iain, much as I love my pair of LR's I'd probably not be surprised if someone could quantify Toyota production being better than Land Rover.

LR had the monopoly in Australia until the mid 70's. Then two things happened - Australia and Japan did a deal on large coal exports which had conditions of large imports of Japanese motor vehicles, aaaaaand Leyland sucked up LR (which were being shipped to Aus as kits and built locally) Needless to say the quality declined. That info comes from Wikipedia, so take it or leave it, but it's undeniably interesting.

The CEO of Jameson whiskey once told me the story of the grip Scotch had on the American market in the 20th century. When prohibition was lifted in the States the Irish and Scottish whiskey manufacturers scrambled to get themselves back into the mainstream market. Scotch being twice distilled to Irish whiskey's thrice, was ready to export sooner and so caught the market. There can be less than obvious reasons for how a market behaves.

I'd love to know the ratio of LR to Toyota in Africa. Being that it's much closer to England.

Anyway who currently produces the most reliable engines, Ford or Toyota?

Can not give you a accurate figure now, but in 2005 the Province (State) that I lived in South Africa, Land Rover had 54% of the market, and yes that was combining Toyota, Nissan, Isuzu togeter Land Rover still had 54% of the market.

It was nothing out of the ordanary for farmers to own a RR just to go to church on Sundays, the Discoverys yes one for him one for the wife as town vehicles and 10-15 Defenders for the farmer and his wife and the farm formans sons, daughters, labourers.

[Poscott]

This thread is sounding very rugged and technical now,so mabye time for a refresh.

Let's face up to the fact, I'm never going to be more than half an hour from help in the UK.

This coupled with amount of motorway driving far surpassing occasional soft roading.

Muddy, tracks and turf being about the scariest it's likely to get.

Let me outline the reasons for my choice of lifestyle vehicle.

Kids, dogs, fishing, comfort, visibility, safety.

So why not a Volvo estate you may ask?

I still want to feel alive and know that the ability is there if required.

Every little boy grows up wanting adventure.

[miketomcat]

If you want alive buy a 110 csw even the dead can't sleep in there ?. Seriously though from what you say it boils down to which one you "like" the most as you say they both have there problems so which one do YOU want.

Mike

[Shackleton]

Kids, dogs, fishing, comfort, visibility, safety.

So why not a Volvo estate you may ask?

Yes, absolutely why not. XC70 D5 Auto. You might find they're a little more competent offroad than you'd expect. If you're only going to do a little soft roading then you'd be mental not to. 50mpg combined, 130mph, 215bhp/309lbft, a hell of a lot of space and crucially extremely quiet and comfortable for the whole family. What's not alive about 0-62 in 7.5 seconds, and speaking as an owner of a D5 auto I can tell you the D5 sound under heavy throttle will make you happy. If what you're really after is a big brick then fair enough, but if it's really to cover the reasons above then the only thing you could possibly mark the Volvo (or one of its competitors) down on is visibility. And it'll still have better vision than a standard car.

Otherwise, Mike said it.... best make a decision of the heart if it has to be a true 4x4, because you won't get a unanimous verdict from us

Rangey, that's really interesting, and the extravagance is totally unexpected! I wonder whether the changes in Defender since '05 made any difference to that. Hey how many LR's did you have down there

[Poscott]

Back to reality, my budget is £2500.

Back in 2007 I bought a new Disco as main family car.

At the time I also test drove an XC90.

Beautiful car but hated it. Seat too short. Armrest sloped downwards. Turning circle was abominable, and I was scared of filling the boot with junk as it looked too clean and clinical.

After one hour in the disco I was hooked.

Bought a black XS.

Now things are different.

Priorities about image changed.

As did my purchase budget.

[Poscott]

That's £2.5k plus a part ex.

[Poscott]

As for RR. I did contemplate a cheap one.

But then I remembered. More toys, more problems.

I would happily settle for manual window winders if they lasted longer.

[Shackleton]

Fair enough. Funny my cousin said the same about his XC90 T6 when I asked him why he got rid of it. I was talking about the 70 though, and whereas I haven't had one per say, there are three V70 D5's in the family. The UK market must be different at the moment because you can get a credible XC70 here for less than 2.5k euro, let alone £'s.

So you want a Disco but it doesn't reflect your style, so it's the Jap option. Let us know how you get on

[Poscott]

No. I want a new disco but my priorities changed considerably lol.

Will keep you up to date. Think I may have found a nice Td5

[FridgeFreezer]

b.) they propensity to use, in my opinion, excessive amounts of fuel

Jez & Dirtydiesel mocked me across 3 continents and back at every petrol station filling up the 109 (4.6 V8), then Jez bought a TLC and DD bought a Patrol, both diesels, and neither of them has said a peep since about MPG, probably because both vehicles struggle to get near 20mpg, and diesel costs more than petrol.

It's a trade off, both TLC and patrol are bigger trucks with bigger lumps and heavier duty bits than a Disco or Rangie, and the size/weight penalty that goes with it hits the MPG. Depends how much you're willing to pay per mile for the percieved extra reliability.

[Lewis]

Isn't the vehicle sold in the UK as the Landcruiser actually a Prado and not the proper full size 200 series that the rest of the world gets.

A Prado (Landcruiser) is a lower class of vehicle compare to the D4 and the 200 series is the equivalent. My brother has a 200 series Sahara 4.5TDV8 and it is a fine alternative to the D4 HSE - strengths and weaknesses on bot sides.

Prado http://www.toyota.com.au/prado-interactive

Landcruiser 200 http://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-200

Yes, and No

150 shape Prado is sold here as Colorado, as was the 120 and 90 before it

200 is sold here as Amazon, as was 100 and 80 before it. You do see some 200's here, but not many

[Poscott]

Was a Colorado I was looking at but seemed too cheap.

LPG conversion which made me very wary.

Love the sound of diesel engines drumming away and don't mind the lack of speed.

You know its gonna get there. When depends on the flow of traffic. Not my right foot.

[Boydie]

Okay, cards on the table, I'm a very content and happy Disco 300TDi owner as in my opinion for the off road desert touring I do, on average 30,000 kilometres a year it's the most comfortable, reliable and most economic vehicle that to this point in time has ever been built and given my current age, 68, it will serve me well for the rest of my days. That said it has undergone considerable modifications to get it to this stage of reliability but this work would, in my opinion, apply equally to any make or model of vehicle.

Toyota made their name in Australia well before the 60's - as for reasons I'm unable to ascertain, they were used almost exclusively by all the construction companies involved in the construction of the Snowy Mountains Hydro Electricity power scheme and due to that made their name here for reliability.

Reg Sprigg (with his wife and two small children) was the first to cross the Simpson Desert from West - East, before there were any tracks and by using astral navigation alone (1,160 sand dunes ranging in height from 10 - 50 metres over a distance of 400 kilometres) and they did this in a 6 cylinder petrol engine Nissan SWB Patrol, the only mechanical problems they experienced being a blocked fuel line from rust from the 44 gallon fuel drum they carried inside the Nissan, overheating in 40+ centigrade temperatures and a misfire due to loose contact breaker points. This does not include the daily punctures caused by spinifex and their thin walled cross ply tyres. A good and hilarious read is the book by his wife Griselda, "Dune is a Four Letter Word" and a recent video made by the Nissan Car Club of Australia of their feat called "First is Forever" is well worth looking at.

The Toyota turbo 6 cylinder diesel is a joy, it runs as smooth as fresh cream. Fuel consumption is high but given the engine capacity isn't I suppose excessive but higher than I personally would want however it's renowned for it's reliability and it pulls harder than a 14 year old boy with a sealed Black edition of Penthouse. Note, I do not include the latest V8 diesel twin turbo in this general appraisal as from many reports by unfortunate current owners it's a absolute dog, the common complaint being vacuum pump failure and this is installed in the sump and replacement means removal of the engine.

I honestly believe it really comes down to what type of vehicle you want, what you can afford and, ultimately what you want it for and do with it, if you, as a prospective buyer allow yourself to be "blinkered" by a preference for a particular make I think that you do yourself a disservice.

Any make can produce a lemon, and I recall when I lived in the UK a neighbour who worked at the Vauxhall plant telling my father that to get back at the management they would put empty coke cans or ball bearings in the door sills

[Rangy35]

Yes, absolutely why not. XC70 D5 Auto. You might find they're a little more competent offroad than you'd expect. If you're only going to do a little soft roading then you'd be mental not to. 50mpg combined, 130mph, 215bhp/309lbft, a hell of a lot of space and crucially extremely quiet and comfortable for the whole family. What's not alive about 0-62 in 7.5 seconds, and speaking as an owner of a D5 auto I can tell you the D5 sound under heavy throttle will make you happy. If what you're really after is a big brick then fair enough, but if it's really to cover the reasons above then the only thing you could possibly mark the Volvo (or one of its competitors) down on is visibility. And it'll still have better vision than a standard car.

Otherwise, Mike said it.... best make a decision of the heart if it has to be a true 4x4, because you won't get a unanimous verdict from us

Rangey, that's really interesting, and the extravagance is totally unexpected! I wonder whether the changes in Defender since '05 made any difference to that. Hey how many LR's did you have down there

Cant speak now, have been in OZ for six years now, landed 27/11/2008.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Just to update folks. I'm looking at older model vehicles. Its a second car. Have previously had a 57 plate disco xs and loved it. If I could afford, this would be the choice but cash doesn't allow anything over £3.5k and I do like older models as they have more character. If I could afford a good J40 that would be a dream but they go for huge money in the UK. So its either a disco, LC, shogun, or trooper.

Guess it all comes down to what you fancy, find in budget and what you want to do with it.

Might want to put Jeep on the list too, the XJ Cherokee is a fantastic vehicle, esp the 4.0 litre one. Not as big as a Disco inside or out, although a lot of it is head hight lost inside with slightly smaller back seats. But plenty big enough otherwise for 4/5 people and luggage.

Grand Cherokee's a bit more plusher and a little bigger, but still more compact than a Disco.

[CwazyWabbit]

I do wonder how many brand specific forums you could have this discussion on and not just get a canned response of all other 4x4 are rubbish, says something that people are recommending all different manufacturers not just LR

[Poscott]

Am very impressed with all the info and unbiased information. All comments are well appreciated. Thank you.

[steve_a]

troopers are the reliable if agricultural option. ive driven one offroad. they're quite good.

but i'd have a disco. by far the best allrounder of them all imho.

Be careful which one you get though, the clever engine one (2001 ish?), 4JX1 IIRC, is a terrible engine design (great engine when it is running) and I wouldn't touch it with someone elses.

[Poscott]

And once again you lost me. Which one has that engine?

[cjmt]

And once again you lost me. Which one has that engine?

Isuzu Troopers >'99 have a very clever 3.0 DOHC common rail diesel designed by Caterpillar that produces about 180 bhp and does 30mpg but self destructs in many, many creative, expensive and terminal ways. Great when it works though. The earlier Troopers had a 3.1 engine that was nice, reliably but thirst and even earlier was the 2.8 4JB1T that is great, noisy, quite slow and very frugal. It often ends up (or used to) as a transplant into Defenders. I have a 2000 Trooper retrofitted with the 2.8 which is a great bit of kit if very agricultural

Charlie

[Chicken Drumstick]

Things like this with the Trooper are good to know, as are general parts and replacement bits.

Personally I don't think Land Rovers are really any worse in durability/reliability for the most part. But being in the UK you do need to consider there are loads and loads of LR specialists and stockist and lots and lots of very good parts availability, new and used.

Something Japanese may well be more durable, might also cost 2-3x more to repair when something does go wrong. Simply due to lower availability of parts and higher pricing.